Spare the Rod

Know what? For years and years of my life I thought the phrase "spare the rod; spoil the child" was an anti-spanking message. Basically saying...spare the rod...don't hit them...spoil them instead. I kept getting confused when the context clearly contradicted that. One day I realized it means that the child would be spoiled if you spared the rod. Duh.

Anyone else have proverbs, sayings, etc that they totally had the wrong idea about?

Damn, I thought this was going to be about Rod Picott.

I didn't get it wrong but so many people say "I could care less." That means you care somewhat, the opposite of what they mean. I never understood that one, it just grates on me.

Well, this is the same thing "for all intensive purposes". ;)

I could of told you that!

I bet alot of people use to think that way.

Well, then those people have another thing coming!

But it's not going to change, so we minus well give up.

Oh, Crimea River.

>I could of told you that!

See, that's one thing that really irritates me, because, as much as I know what the sentence " I could of ..." means it makes no sense to me, gramatically.� When spoken, sure, that'S what it sounds like, but it's "could've", for "could have"...

It just irks my inner linguist.� It's absolutely nothing against you, Paul :D

Are you sure that wasn't his point in posting that?

as far as i am aware, "for all intensive purposes" doesn't mean anything.. its actually a mistake and a common one at that, when people use this instead of "for all intents and purposes".

{whoosh}

yea, went over my head.. i guess i got confused with the idea of a "real" saying and just common mistakes for sayings.. mute point, for all intensive purposes being mistakes not sayings in themselves (unless popularity makes a saying). difference in saying that mondegreens are lyrics vs the lyrics themselves.

Heh, as michael pointed out in sound effect form... that was exactly my point.
:)
*wookie noise*

you mean it's not about a product for�campers and sea critters?

i thought it was "for all in tents, and porpoises".�

the one that bugs me is when people say something "fell between the cracks." it also has the opposite meaning of what's intended.

Heh. Yep.
Supposed to be "slipped through..."

funny, i thought its pretty self explainatory...

opening (crack) --> | between | <- opening (crack)

i've always taken it to mean that something was neglected, that someone was covering the left while someone else was covering the right and it fell between them to be lost. like dropping a coin into a sewer grate. left side of the opening being a crack and the right side being a crack.

and thats a whole lotta crack.

but in the sewer grate example, the things your coin falls between aren't cracks, which is the whole point. it falls into the crack. between them and it lands on top and you can just go pick it up.

umm. no if you consider each side of a particular crack a crack in itself..

which is very literal, but correct nonetheless.

unless the crack was a circle or a mobius strip or something that only has one side.. but i doubt you seldom find circular cracks.

Main Entry: 2crack
Function: noun
Date: 14th century

3 a : a narrow break : FISSURE < a crack in the ice> b : a narrow opening

So, the "crack" is the open space... not including the sides.

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)
cracked adjective
1 If something is cracked, it is damaged with one or more thin lines on its surface:
a cracked mirror/window
cracked plates

I guess I interpret that this way.. that the left side is a line in the surface and the right is a line in the surface as well. May not be the "most sound" application of the definition.

Sure, but even there, the "crack" is the part where the left side and the right side are not.

An absence of matter.... or, absence of substance.

Think brittany spears.
;)

I think the "crack"�is what Bill is smoking :D

What do you say when Treebeard can't talk?
Ent Mute.

and I thought it was going to be about Frulie's Rod...

I think the actual phrase is "I couldn't care less" and people just mess it up.

It is "I couldn't care less." When I was young nobody said, "I could care less." People just stopped listening to what they were saying.

These, these are the Rods I know!

Give now to the Rod fund... and spare Rod.

Duuuuuuuude!!!
I feel the same way! And i was going to post about it until I saw yours right there. if they could care less, then why don't they?

Heh.
Wish my parents had obeyed your version of the saying.
;)

(actually, I don't.)

Yeah - that's definitely not meant as a command.

I'm still baffled by "the world is your oyster." I've been told that it means that you can open it and find a pearl, but I mean really now, WTF. I can also open it, find nothing, eat it and get poisoned by some dinoflagellate. Thanks a lot.

hahahaha

That really cracked me up for some reason.
:)

Inflammable!� Gah!� It really bugs me.� It should mean not flammable.� There's a bunch more like that, I just can't think of them.

'Irregardless' is one that makes my skin crawl.

From Webster's:

Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.

"I could care less." This one's a multilayered annoyance�-- it's usually�employed by those who really could care less, but who use it to try to�convince you they couldn't.�

Well this is interesting. I was going to point out that Inflammable is the real word and that Flammable is the later corruption, but looking it up I just discovered that while I'm right about which came first, they actually have different linguistic roots.

Websters:

Main Entry: in�flam�ma�ble
Pronunciation: in-'fla-m&-b&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: French, from Medieval Latin inflammabilis, from Latin inflammare
Date: 1605
1 : FLAMMABLE
2 : easily inflamed , excited, or angered : IRASCIBLE

Main Entry: flam�ma�ble
Pronunciation: 'fla-m&-b&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin flammare to flame, set on fire, from flamma
Date: 1813
: capable of being easily ignited and of burning quickly
- flammable noun

except that the Latin inflammare and the Latin flammare have the same root.

or rather, it looks like one is the root of the other.

.. and� "flammable" is not a word in French :D

I like Rod, and he has to be spared, he is married to Fr�lie!

Just remembered another one I always misunderstood.

"An open and shut case". Whenever I heard that for most of my life I thought it meant that the case was very difficult and iffy and that every time you thought you had it solved it would throw a twist at you. Know what I mean? I took "open and shut" to imply an ongoing pattern...indefinitely opening and shutting.

It wasn't until the past 5 years or so that I learned it meant it was a ridiculously simple case, solved/shut almost as soon as it is opened.

The popular Australian (perhaps British as well) 'Bob's your uncle" always makes me smile.

I hate that "boughten" is in some east-coast manufactured dictionaries. Even though that's completely off topic.

Yeah...I mean, I understand to some extent the idea the dictionaries should tell you how the language is actually used... But then, who's going to tell us what's correct? And if no one does, and we don't have any rules any more, how will we understand each other a generation from now?

So a book is what defines language?

We'll understand ourselves a generation from now because words don't (or rarely at least) come out of nowhere. I could invent my own slang, and with a few exceptions, if I did it "naturally" you'd still know what I meant. While bad spelling/language might be irratating, I doubt many people actually have a hard time understanding what the other person is saying. It's just like with double negatives. If I say "We don't need no education", you know exactly what I've said, even though it isn't "right".
In the end though, that won't be a problem because language doesn't exist in issolation. Words evolove because other people use them that way. Sure, maybe someone from SanFrancisco might not be able to fully understand someone from Portland, ME, but is that any worse than someone from London being unable to understand someone in Paris? Even then, it would take generations upon generations to get beyond minor dialectal changes.

Yes, I have put too much thought into that ;-)

I only in the last couple years understood "You can't have your cake and eat it too."� I remember always thinking, "If you eat your cake, you've had it. soo.. Huh??"

the phrase used to be "eating your cake & having it" i.e. having your peice of cake in front of you after you've eaten it.

now you can do that too, but it's pretty gross afterwards.

I always hated that saying because "having" something could be eating it. For example if someone saws "Hey, have a piece of pie." Do you say "thanks" and then just put it in front of you and look at it? No, you eat it. Same with saying "I had a nice big lunch." Have=eat in that case. The saying should be "You can't keep your cake and eat it too."

Temporary barriers / fences in Australia are usually adorned with this stencilled message: "Bill Posters will be prosecuted." Until It was pointed out to me that the warning was intended to discourage people fom sticking placards advertising some upcoming concert - or whatever - to them, I kept wondering what Bill was being prosecuted for.

*giggle*

Bill Posters sounds like a good name for a character in a short story.

"You can't be too careful"

does it mean that no matter how careful you are, it can never be over-careful
or that if you're too careful you'll never do anything?

In the song, I think Dave means the second one.�

Yeah, in the song, he means the latter.... but, I think of that phrase as being the former, so the song has always kinda bothered me.

Yeah...I think he was trying to be clever with it...but it still always bothered me too.

It'd be interesting, though, to compile phrases like that....that can mean opposite things depending on how you interpret the wording.

Agh! That bothers me too!

The words flush and sanction both can mean two opposite things. I learned that from Will Shortz.

Hrm...interesting. Like in the sense that you can flush out an enemy and make him come forth or flush a toilet and make things go away? And you can sanction an activity and approve of it or you can enforce a sanction on another party as a punitive measure? (I'm being overly simple about it, just wondering if I'm touching on the right senses of opposition.)

yah...

Flush:
To flow suddenly and abundantly, as from containment; flood.
To be emptied or cleaned by a rapid flow of water, as a toilet.

Sanction:
To give official authorization or approval to
To penalize, especially for violating a moral principle or international law.

Don't for get "cleave" - to split apart�or to�hold together

And then there's my personal fave: OVERSIGHT!

I sent that one into the Car Talk guys, and they�mentioned it on the air!

Agh! I forgot cleave!

Click and Clack! Yay for NPR geekdom!

Indeed!
Car Talk rules.
:D

I remember them saying that. I didn't know it was you. I think I knew you by then.

I wrote to Car Talk and suggested they play Rod Picott and I had Rod send them a disk. A couple of months later they did. That made me happy.

They once did a puzzler that they said had been sent into them years ago by some kid who by now had graduated college. I then found out that that was my friend Nora's son.

Ditto, couldn't stand it for the first few months they played it.

I guess it's sort of similar to XTC's "Don't Lose Your Temper." The song isn't saying, "Don't get angry," but rather, "Don't lose your ability to get angry."

you know how you say, "we're meeting on Tuesday to blah blah blah?"

there are so many people that say things like "we're meeting on Tomorrow" ?� on Tomorrow??? ick

------------

of course, in an only remotely vaguely related string...� I've always loved things like PIN Number, NIC Card, ATM Machine, etc.� :P

angie

I need to remember my pin number so I can go to the atm machine and take out money for a new nic card.

Thanks for reminding me! ;)

be careful, though. I heard people leave needles in the money slot that contain the HIV virus.

I actually would have gone to get cash for a down payment on a new car, as long as I wasn't paying the full MSRP price or too high an APR rate. but I checked on my PC computer for the best bargaining tips, and someone on AOL online told me I was using too many TLA acronyms.

oh well. YMMV may vary.

To me, the worst offender of these types of sayings is, " I'll call you at 8AM in the morning."�

*twitch twitch shudder shudder*

Please RSVP by Thursday.

another one I just heard from a coworker - "GMT time."

ooh, I hate it when people say "ATM machine" or "VIN number"

RSVP

I don't get how that applies.

r�pondez s'il vous pla�t


it means, Please respond.

Nothing wrong with adding a time stipulation *shrug*

Yeah, I was wondering about that too... but thought maybe I was missing something in paul's point.

He wrote "Please RSVP"...so the please is being repeated.

Ahh.. that's what I was missing. :)

Thanks!

duh.

gotcha.

Yeah, you should be sure to do that on tomorrow.
;)

Ooh! That reminds me of something Olympic commentators do that bugs THE HELL out of me. There's this one guy in particular who does it all the time.

"Stay tuned for the synchronized diving competition, coming up in about 6 minutes from now!"

You can say it's coming up "in 6 minutes", or you can say it's coming "six minutes from now", but please don't say both, it hurts my ears, stupid commentator man.

Oh oh oh... finally i can talk about this...

When people say "is" twice it really bugs me... and it seems like its almost everyone. People don't even notice it and sometimes deny that they do it when I point it out, even when they've just done it...

like you'll say "the problem is is that..." and it sounds like you think of "the-problem-is" almost as one word and then continue the sentence where you think you've left off, still needing "is that..."

Does anyone know what i'm talking about?

yeah. "What the problem is, is that...."

I don't think it's technically incorrect, it's just awkward, and can be better phrased by simply saying "The problem is that..."

if it's technically correct, it must be from popularity of usage, cause in reality, it makes no sense.

How about this one:

"My friend, he said _________"

Why not just, "My friend said ________"

Or even better, "So he says to me, he says__________"

Hate that.

oO My friend my friend he's got a knife... Oo

But that's cute and old-timey... or something.

Bart: So I says to Maybel, I says...

When it's not said by a cartoon character though... yeah, its annoying.

Oh!
yeah, but I thought we were talking, like, real-world conversations.
:)

There's a difference?

Yes, I hate to break it to you, but there is a difference between the real world and cartoons.

:(

Noooooooo!

Y'know, I think that may be residual from other languages where an indicative particle is necessary.

Is that right? Indicative particle? Grammar nazis, come out! I need you!

I'm not a grammar nazi, but while it's not necessary in French the "so and so, he" construction is often used. I think it's a reiterative, emphatic tool, particularly in a chain of thoughts. "Joe said this, but Bill, he said ... "

oh, like or "thanks but no thanks."

cause the last part is "no, thanks" as in "no, but thank you" & not as in "no thanks to you."

so you're saying "no, thank you but thank you." which is crazy.

*thwap*

��

Hehehehe.

O:-)

"Alls you gotta do is"

I've worked with some very educated people...lawyers and doctors, etc. who�use this and it takes away all credibility.

"I'm looking to _______________(rent an apartment, get a new job, etc)"

Ex-boyfriend used this a lot. Ack!

Yeah, the first drives me nuts.

The second, however.....

Main Entry: 1look
Pronunciation: 'luk
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lOcian; akin to Old Saxon lOcOn to look
Date: before 12th century
transitive senses

4 a : EXPECT, ANTICIPATE (we look to have a good year) b : to have in mind as an end (looking to win back some lost profits)

I don't see the problem there....

What about�"fixin' to"?

Heh, now THAT bothers me.
:)
"redneck-speak"

Here are a couple others that I have actually heard spoken outside the confines of a joke.

Djuwunto - Djuwunto go down to the store? (Did you want to)

And my personal favorite...widjadija...
You didn't bring yer truck widjadija? (With you did you).

Oh, and "jeet" and "jew" as in "Jeet?" "No, Jew?" (did you eat, no did you).

"lookin' to" and "fixin' to" just strike me as regionalisms, not incorrect in the ludicrous way of "apple pie a la mode -- topped with ice cream" or "roast beef with au jus gravy". ack!

What about when people ask you if you want the "au jus?"

Heh.
I've never heard someone do that.
that's funny. :D

I mean, if they ask you if you want your steak au jus, that's fine.... but if you ask for more of it, it's just jus.

Most menus say "comes with Au Jus dipping sauce". *makes a face*

Yup...once when I had someone ask for his very well-done prime rib to be cooked more, the chef said "don't worry, we'll just drown it in au jus to make it look darker."

I agree - it's zhoost zhoos

The first time I drove through the town I'm living in now, I got a little misplaced and had to ask directions.� I asked this guy in a truck, and, sweet mother of pearl!
Conversation:
Me :�Could you possibly tell me how to get to blahdy blah street?
Him:� Well.. see.. watcha gotta do is, ya gotta take a right on this here street, until it gets to Sylvia, then you take a left, oh wait,� no, not Sylvia, second *hick laugh*� i always'm gettin those two confused.� Alright, watcha gotta do is, you gotta take a right on second street, no, a left.� Take a left on second street.� It's over that'r'away's.�
Me:� Oh... umm.. left on second?
Him: Yuuup.

Heh.� wow, I'm so sad I remember all of that.

"That's aside the point."

yeah Nate, but you live in a place where there's enough French-language influence that maybe, just maybe, most folks have a clue. :) Get away from northern New England and terms like that just get butchered.

Speaking of "foreign"-tinged dishes I cringe at, how about Eye-talian Dressing? Or -- this encountered in a diner in Syracuse -- "yonkies". When I was altogether stumped by this side-dish offering, the waitress informed me that they're these little Italian dumpling things, kinda like pasta but they're made with potatoes ...

*slits wrists*

I'm still stumped.... "yonkies"?

gnocchi.

oh dear god.
:D

Salsa sauce - that ones drives me bonkers.
Oh, boring story:

I was at a staff meeting on Monday night, and we were forced to watch a video showcasing our new Fall line of clothing. One of the upcoming collections is called the Ranch Collection - earth tones, soft fabrics, pictures of horses - and at one point during the fashion show, the Buyer announces....*heeheehee*....excuse me, but this makes me laugh...."And here comes a perfect example of Ranch Dressing."

hahahahah!

That was NOT a boring story.
:)

I was reading a journal (academic, not personal) and the author wrote something along the lines of� (ommitting the quotation marks for the sake of clarity):

People keep asking me "How I do it?'"���� Bah!

Unless there is some grammar I don't know about it should either be:

People keep asking me how I do it.����� or...

People keep asking me "How do you do it?"

It was very distracting to me.

Yes!

"I wonder if it will rain today?"

It's a statement, not a question for Chrissakes!

There's a shirt that says, "I'm lost. Please take me home with you?"

I want to destroy the people who wear it. It angers me.

Well...

see in that case, you can just imagine a cute little person looking up with big wet eyes with their voice turning up at the end of the sentence like its a question...

Its incorrect, but in this case one could plead cuteness.

But it's not meant to be cute. It's meant as a sexual innuendo. Which makes it even worse, cause it's not even a clever one. I have only seen it on big dumb people so far.

But the sexual appeal is in the child-like cuteness... which if you think about it too hard is... lets not think about that.

lay/lie. lay is transitive. it means to cause to lie.

I think all these so-called "errors" bother me more when they come from people I expect to be speaking correctly - people whose jobs involve public speaking, like politicians and newscasters. not so much when people just say them in conversation.

I also hear, in reports about overturned cars and trucks, that the vehicles need to be "uprighted," rather than the correct "righted." (an example of hypercorrection, because "righted," while correct, sounds weird)

I'm very gruntled by your erudition.

I am neither over- nor underwhelmed.� I am merely whelmed.

I hate when people say "I" instead of "me" incorrectly... cause I just *know* that they think they're correct and sounding clever, but they're just WRONG! WRONGWRONGWRONG!!!

Also people who say "myself" instead of me or I. That just... grrr!

Myself would never do such a thing. Just shoot I if i do.

I hate the same thing with "well". I just came across it somewhere and it made me twitch.

"I couldn't tell if they were lip-synching or not, but they sounded well."

Maybe... they didn't sound sick...? :)

What a ringing endorsement. :)

"Um...yeah...they sucked, of course...but...um...they sounded quite disease-free!" :)

I hate -- with a passion -- the word "utilize." What's wrong with "use"?

"Cleave" made me think of a poem I read once called "The Panther Bolts His Cage," where "bolts" could have either meant "flees" or "locks up."

One other peeve. My parents say "That would be correct" when they mean "That is correct," simply because they know it drives me nuts. I always respond, "It would be correct, except that it's completely wrong." Spices up family gatherings.

Why use a short word, when utilizing a longer one would be correct? :o)

Sometimes its an aesthetic choice...

But often its just padding.

The expression she has him wrapped around her little finger seems backwards to me. Shouldn't the finger be wrapped around him? Am I missing something?

yes, you are.

That's interesting. In German this expression exists as well and I wasn't aware of the fact that it's an English idiom, too.

.oO Where seldom is heard a discouraging word Oo.

I thought that the people were discouraged anytime someone used the word "seldom."

Heeee. Over heard over the cubicle wall: "Keep an upper chin".

The bastard son of "Keep a stiff upper lip" and "Keep your chin up".