Greatest Male Songwriter

Just to conform to the latest topic, I shall add thissun. Who is the greatest male songwriter? I would have a tough time choosing between Elliott Smith, Paul Simon, and Peter Mulvey. Thoughts?

peterpeterpeter

Add a few Peters on there for me. The Peter Queen. :)

pumpkin eater

Has a wife and he will keep her! :)

as i said before. he has such versatility and rang!. He can do any style he damn well wants!

I must say, though, I was disappointed with his latest work. I mean, come on:

"Trust your intuition / It's just like goin' fishin'"

Worst. Simile. EVER.

Damn, I almost forgot Bobs Dylan and Marley. How could I do such a thing?

johnny cash?� paul simon?

�-= george =-

I have to go with Paul Simon... maybe Rufus Wainwright�in English...

But I have to go with Pierre Lapointe, Boris Vian, Jacques Brel�as greatest...

*1,000 shellypoints� for mentioning the man in black*

WTG, norg!!!!

the thing with this discussion, is are we talking about singer/songwriter?� because if not. . . i would think that all the classical greats count as songwriters. they are more "composers" yes, but they are writing songs. so that's a whole new slew of ppl to choose from.

DONT complicate this! it's hard enough as is.

Damn! I was just about to mention Johann Sebastian Bach.

I have to say Dan Bern. I know it's unoriginal, but I have to because a) I really think it and b) it's my duty.

Going for greatest Male song writer is more difficult, it is largely a matter of what type of music you like. My number 1 would be Dylan but Dylan says that Hank Williams was the greatest. The guys that would have to be on my top ten list are: (note there are several duos on the list)

1. George and Ira Girshwin


2. Rogers and Hart and or Hammerstein


3. Woody Guthrie


4. Leadbelly


5. Cole Porter


6. Bob Dylan


7. Lennon/McCartney


8. Paul Simon


9. Jagger/Richards


10. Springsteen

Wow that's actually ten. Jazz is underrepresented. Perhaps Duke Ellington belongs. Perhaps Sachmo or Coltrane. The problem with Jazz is that songwriting is not at the core of the art.

One hallmark of great songwriters is that other people can perform their works and make it their own. All of these people have been covered. Springsteen is probably the one that I'm least confident in placing on the list. I can see Dave Carter entering this company with time. His stature has been grown since his death and other performers interpret his work.

dwd!!!� no hoopoe on your list????

*shocker*

As you know Richard Thompson is a huge personal favorite. I was erring on the side of caution. He did write the greatest song ever, 1952 VBL and is has been covered a few times recently. I should have at least put him in the Dave Carter category though.

When Pete Kennedy talks about great songwriters he always says, Dylan, Richard Thompson, and Dave Carter.

thank you for adding the gershwin name.

how 'bout irving berlin? (:

�-= george =-

I thought about him but when it comes down to it I hate his stuff. God Bless America is godawful. He really was a forerunner of the pop pandering to the audience school of songwriting. To put it less harshly his work lacks the depth both musically and lyrically of the others on the list.

he does have some hot points tho.� blue skies comes to mind .. the songs themselves may not have been perfect, but they were good enough vehicles to be performed by some amazing folks...� and they sounded pretty darn amazing.� under the crust..

�-= george =-

yay for adding the gershwins, r&h/h, and cole porter. i would add richard thompson and, like, you said, eventually dave carter.

Certainly.

Mulvey is also great.

word.

um. that's all. i just have a lot of tom love :)

oh.

yeah.

forgot him.

Jian!� Actually to tell the truth I have no clue.� Although if it were cutest male songwriter...

. . .then it -still- wouldn't be jian :P

Sure sure.� That's what you think.� :P� (Hee hee.)

*chases jaci off with a big stick*

:D

*finds an even bigger stick and joins in*

:D

o.O

kinky.

Jim Croce... Jim is the MAN... of course i could definatly go for Arlo Guthrie, Paul Simon, and Tim Buckley

These are great topics for discussion. I have to second Jim Croce. All of his songs are incredible, he doesn't lock into a certain style, and ... I'm having trouble finishing the triple, but it's great stuff.

I'm intentionally keeping quiet in these forums, since I usually focus more on the delivery than who wrote the message. But I'm reading them avidly.

and some of them have already been mentioned, so if you mentioned them, i agree with you.� so word!!!! {*note* these are not in order, necessarily.� and i didn't list, like cole porter or the gershwins coz in my opinion, they're composers, not mere song writers...diff genres..blablabla}

~springsteen.�� coz.� yeah.

~johnny cash.� the man in black rocks.

~dave carter.� nuff said.

~townes van zandt.� arguments???

~woody guthrie.� this land is my land, this land is his land.

~peter mulvey. agreed.

~robbie schaefer. no picking on me.� no saying 'biased!!'.� the schaef-meister can write.{i also think mike's stuff is good, too, but i know i'd be pushing the envelope with that one ;)� }

~john hiatt.� for 'your love is my rest' and -so- much more......

~paul mccartney and john lennon. eleanor rigby and others too numerous to mention.

i know i forgot someone and i'll be sad later.� but i can always re-post, eh?

{ps~hey,care~ did davy -write- *loff*??� or 'the day we fall in love'??� *guffaw*}

no, but he *did* write "war games!" :)

teehee

~iMMEDIATELY goes into 'bob dylan singing 'wargames'~

Oh crap! How did I forget John Hiatt!

- Tom Waits
- Gordon Lightfoot
- John Martyn
- Bruce Cockburn
- Dan Bern
- Bob Dylan
- Ron Sexsmith
- Stephen Fearing
- Danny Michel
- John Lennon/Paul McCartney (separate and together)

Who can decide? Actually tough to stop. ;)

If you asked songwriters to list their favorites Randy Newman would rank high. He is a throwback as unlike most of the postwar songwriters he is best known for other people interpreting is work.

I wasn't sure what to do about Stephan Sondheim. Is it his songs that are great or the way he weaves them into musicals? His collaboration with Leonard Bernstein on West Side Story produced some of the greatest songs ever.

Yep. Peter Mulvey's always pushing me to get into Randy Newman. :)

Dave Carter. a million times Dave Carter. He has created some of the most incredible beauty i have seen in this world yet.

also on my list of veryveryvery good:
-Dan Bern
-Peter Mulvey
-Bruce Cockburn (for writing the best song ever, Lovers In A Dangerous Time)

Paul Simon (mostly from the Simon and Garfunkel years, not so much solo)

Peter Mulvey

Dan Bern (excluding much of 50 Eggs, which I balme on Ani DeFranco)

Andy Partridge

Mike Ford (he wins on account of Independence Day alone)

If you blame it on Ani, does that mean it's his only well-written stuff?

Cuz, like, I've heard other stuff by him that's well written.

Other way around. I'm blaming the songs I don't like on Ani. It might or might not be her fault, but much of that album sounds very forced to me. None of his other albums have that feel.

I thought Independence Day was a murray song. . . .

murray sings it, but i believe mike wrote it.

I'll agree with Andy Partridge.� He's also one of my favorite male singers.� Pretty much The Man, as far as my personal favorite musicians go.

I think "greatest" is a bit of a grandiose and pretentious term for my peeps... and most of the peeps I know aren't pretentious... I just think they're super talented... so here I go... Elvis Costello Bob Dylan Ron Sexsmith Andy Stochansky (wasn't always, but getting there) Matthew Sweet (also a nice progression) Dan Navarro (Lowen & Navarro) Steve Dawson (Dolly Varden) Jeff Tweedy (Wilco) Mike Nesmith�NEIL FINN�Luka Bloom Adam Levy (Honeydogs) Marty Sexton ain't bad either...

yesyesyes. especially elvis, neil, & jeff.

Mr.E from the Eels

or Jim Bob Injustice from Carter USM

oh yeah, E is cool.� I really like his first single from his first solo CD (probably released about 10 or 11 years ago no?) "Hello Cruel World."� I just really love that line "What the hell/Hello cruel world"

Bono and the edge- every song evokes somekind of a mood be it political to love to fear of a technological revolution.

Lennon/McCartney- Gods amonugst men. It is almost as if they made a pact with the devil to have such a run of music

Springsteen- God amoungst the common man, a man trying to make his voice heard be it to an uncaring gov't or to a neighborhood woman.

Gershwin- "rhapsody in blue" enough said

Paul Simon- The soul of the 60's counter culture.

Billy Joel- A long Island man and his piano, just singing aboot life, really nothing more, but always great to listen to.

do we have a thread for best male singers? bono definitely belongs in there. his vocal and emotional ranges are incredible.

Somebody has to mention Bowie, a unique talent.

Bowie is another "glad people cover him" person.
:)

He did write some good songs, tho.

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned Leonard Cohen, one of the great poet/songwriters.

Ack! I can't believe I left him off my list! Also forgot to mention Willie P. Bennett!

You were the person I figured would be most likely ot mention him. You or Stacey

I know! *hangs head in shame*

eep, yes, leonard cohen.
and nick drake, people. nick drake.
i'll throw in a vote for andrew bird for the future greats...god, can that man write.

Leonard Cohen. :) I'll get back to you on others.

BILL BOURNE!

I can't believe I didn't mention him. If I were on my deathbed, I would want Bill Bourne to come and play/sing for me, and that would soothe me. Quite honestly.

The songwriters who i think are never given their full due are those that came between the standards writers, Cole Porter et al and the singsongwriters. I mentioned Ellie Greenwich on the female songwriters list but there are others. Many of them worked out of the Brill Building in New York. There are a number of women in the group so I could have put this post on that thread too.

To give an example of the kinds of songs these people wrote I'll give some of Jerry Lieber and Mike Stollers greatest hits.

• Hound Dog


• Charlie Brown


• Jailhouse Rock


• Yakkety Yak


• Love Potion #9


• Stand by Me (With Ben E. King)


• On Broadway


• Poison Ivy


• Stuck in the Middle with You

Some other writers of the era were Carole King & Bernie Goffin and Barry Mann & Cynthia Weil.

carol king and *gerry* goffin, even.
mann & weil might not be as well known...like goffin & king (who deserve immortality for "the porpoise song" alone), they wrote many songs recorded by the monkees. mann & weil are also responsible for the songs on the soundtrack to wild in the streets, which is a great movie about what's going to happen when wild and crazy teenagers take over the country and put lsd into senators' drinking water.

OK where did "Bernie" come from? Somehow this is Bernardo Jose's fault.

Yay for Wild in the Streets!

I saw the film when I was twelve or so and we loved the idea of 14-year-olds voting.

14 OR FIGHT!

neal and i are always talking about attending large gatherings and carrying big signs that say that, and "52%!" and "max frost for president." :)

We need Max Frost Bumper Stickers for the 2004 Elections.

dude. we're opening a cafepress store for that.
actually, we need to open up a cafepress store for a lot of reasons. but yeah.

I'm gonna try an get a Pastrami sandwich on the ballot in '04. i figure it'd be better than Bush, but iknow it'll never get elected. After all, it's jewish

Many, many people worked in the Brill building. Neil Sedaka wrote "Oh Carol" while he was there (for Carol King whom he had a crush on). Neil Diamond wrote several hits there. Lots of others.....

Lieber and Stoller are going to be featured on American Routes this weekend. Listen to it.

gordon. edit whatever you did to turn the forum blue.

Warren Zevon died yesterday. A year ago he was given one month to live. In that last year he put out his last album Life Will Kill You He'll be missed.

absolutely. it's easy to think of him as just "the guy who wrote 'werewolves of london' and 'lawyers, guns, and money'" but there was much more to him than that.

I'm in agreement on Dylan, McCartney/Lennon, Leonard Cohen, Woody Guthrie, and Cole Porter.

How 'bout Hoagie Carmichael and Pete Seeger?

I really can't argue with any of the names mentioned up to now. My choices partly depend on whether my mood has me listening more to the words or the tunes. Of course the best songs are strong in both.

I guess considering this group that its not odd that we should be biased towards the folk side of things. Still it's hard to believe I'm the first to mention Stevie Wonder.

Back on the folk side.... nobody has mentioned Dan Fogelberg.

And Neil Young. Mostly for his CSNY stuff, but also for his other acoustic stuff.

Willie Nelson.

In the showing promise category: Babyface. On the basis of the work he did on the Waiting to Exhale soundtrack. Solid songwriting chops.

I saw My Fair Lady for the umpteenth time tonight and that alone would make Lerner and Loewe immortals. Does any other musical have so many great songs?


1. Overture: Orchestra/Why Can't the English?
2. Wouldn't It Be Loverly?
3. With a Little Bit of Luck
4. I'm an Ordinary Man
5. Just You Wait
6. Rain in Spain
7. I Could Have Danced All Night
8. Ascot Gavotte
9. On the Street Where You Live
10. You Did It
11. Show Me
12. Get Me to the Church on Time
13. Hymn to Him
14. Without You
15. I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face