Poll: Do pets go to heaven?
This topic pretty much started knife fights on the Christianity lj group. Let me lay the ground rules. Forget your personal beliefs in the existance of an afterlife. Just assume there is a heaven. So if heaven exists will pets go there?
lawrence · 16 years, 4 months ago
Forget your personal beliefs in the existance of an afterlife. Just assume there is a heaven. So if heaven exists will pets go there?
but even that assumption doesn't work. I don't believe in heaven, so what should I do, construct rules for how and why people or animals should or shouldn't go there? I can arbitrarily say yes or no for any reason at all.
so I'm going to say no. no one goes to heaven. for the purposes of your poll, I'll assume it exists, but its population is 0. :)
(ok, so really I just answered the poll before I read this post and needed an excuse for what now seems like a cruel response)
trunger is counting... · 16 years, 4 months ago
sorry. couldn't resist fling some Cake around :)
and don't forget that all dogs go to heaven but they don't say anything about cats...
Josh Woodward · 16 years, 4 months ago
Let's assume unicorns have a secret laser gun in their horn. Can it penetrate through bigfoot from a distance of 15 feet if they get in a fight in a forest? 30 feet? Discuss.
To those who believe in the Heaven/Hell dichotomy, access to Heaven is determined by the individual's moral decisions.
The bottom line is that animals are incapable of moral behavior. One could make a very strong case for premoral behavior. A dog knowing something will get him in trouble is a prime example. However, that's all the dog understands -- that behavior means that something negative will happen. They do not understand the concepts of good and bad the way we do. Premoral behavior is essential to the survival of most species. That's why vampire bats feed each other. That's why whales will stick by an injured comrade (a behavior exploited by whalers for centuries; If you injure one whale in a pod, the rest will come to its aid and then... harvest time.) If you are interested in more, I suggest reading The Science of Good and Evil by Michael Shermer.
Access to the more complex concepts of morality are just not there in other species.
For some faiths, the acceptance of that faith is essential for entry to Heaven. However, some make exceptions for those who are incapable of accepting a religion. Some evangelical Christians will tell you that if an individual is not exposed to the concept of Christ and therefore has no way of even knowing that he or she could accept Him, then they couldn't possibly go to Hell for that. Some will tell you that children under the age of thirteen or so automatically go to Heaven because they're too young to truly understand (thank you, Left Behind!). There are many other examples of things like this in various Christian sects. Some religions believe Hell is simply a place without God's presence.
Animals are incapable of accepting a religion. I guess if you're an idiot, you could baptize your cat, but to the cat all that means is to the cat is, "HOLY SHIT, I'm wet!" Religion is a human construct. Sin is a human construct. Your hamster cannot accept Christ. Polar bears do not atone for anything.
If there was a Heaven, animals would either go there or disappear into nothingness. However, I'm far from being a theologian and I'm probably full of shit and to me, this isn't really a serious discussion.
I don't understand how anyone can have a serious debate about the afterlife, if there even is one. It's all conjecture. You have no way of knowing until you're dead and at that time, it's really a moot point -- either you're in some sort of afterlife or you're gone.
Prinut · 16 years, 4 months ago
As a good Hindu, I'll use my typical response for these heaven/hell questions:
They get reincarnated...as other...animals.
I've had serious debates on who would win a bridge tournament between the x-man and the superfriends. This is child's play.
We never really concluded who'd win but we know the styles of the different players and who'd be the best on each team. Professor Xavier and the Beast would be the best pair on the X-Men. Gambit and Rogue would be the swing pair.
Want to know how the Superman films are a comparative analysis of capitalism, communism, and feudalism? I can go into that too.
"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might test them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one spirit (Hebrew "ruach"); so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Who knoweth the spirit (ruach) of man that goeth upward, and the spirit (ruach) of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?" - Ecclesiastes 3:18-3:21
No way. Bigfoot has a super-sekrit force field that is activated upon autonomic sensing of danger.
Nonsense, then why do they spend all their time hiding from unicorns? That's why they are so rarely seen.
Are you telling me that the X-Men and the Superfriends aren't real?
I think I'm going to curl up in a corner and cry. Thanks for breaking my world, punk.
I am not saying that. We all know they exist, we've seen them in the movies. We just have no direct knowledge of their bridge playing skills and styles. Those most be inferred.
Don't be ridiculous. It is because the Bigfoot are stalking the unicorns. You can't stalk something if you just pop out in front of it saying "lookee me! I'm here! Stalking you!"
Well, you can't stalk it *professionally* that way, anyway.
But what does bible.com have to say about it? That's an authority youi can believe in. Not like that commie eccliasties. He ripped off Pete Seeger.
Josh · 16 years, 4 months ago
there's no authority on whether heaven is real or not so i believe that heaven is whatever you want it to be
if you believe you and your pets will be in heaven, then you and your pets will be in heaven
Andrea Krause · 16 years, 4 months ago
But the question is...is that heaven for them? Maybe heaven for them is not having to see a human ever again...:)
sheryls · 16 years, 4 months ago
stop saying "ruach" ..you're going to get that song in my head! i cant even remember the whole song. but the "but by spirit alone, RU-ACH!" gets stuck in my head.
haha. i had no idea that was a song. for that matter, i probably know fewer than 50 words in Hebrew.
leave it to the shiksa to give y'all the earworm of DOOM. :D
Jay · 16 years, 4 months ago
well.. should we also buy into that all life is precious (most ridiculous and hypocritical statement ever, however) and equate that with the fact that all souls shall be equal.. if so then sure I would think anything with a soul goes to "heaven"
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