The Sixties

It always seems to me that the sixties was the best decade ever for popular music. Is it just that I grew up then? I don't think so, there was Dylan, the Beatles, the Beach Boys, the Stones, Hendrix, Arlo, Phil Ochs,... What do you think? Am I just and old fogie or were the sixties special?

Dude. . umm. . .Don't forget The Doors, Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Janis Joplin . . . .

If you look closely at the dots in my ellipsis you'll see all of the above but Judy Collins :-) Nothing wrong with Judy but I don't put her in the same class as the others. You'll also see Peter Paul and Mary, I meant to list them.

I agree with you so completely you have no idea. Well... I suppose now I've said it you do have an idea.... but anyway... *cough*

I'm currently a Beatles addict, and I'm working my way through the rest of the 60's. Recently discovered The Beach Boys. I have a feeling there's so much great music there that it'll take me a while to get through it all, eh? ;)

Don't neglect the Dave Clark Five.� The story goes that in America, your choices were the Beatles or the Beach Boys... but in England, your choices were the Beatles or the DC5.� I can't give that argument much credence, since my dad was sporting the Beatles cut in his sophomore year in High School.� But the DC5 had some amazing songs, and Dave Clark worked some magic on his record company.� Of course, in hindsight, a big part of that magic helped secure his place in obscurity, but that's beside the point.

Was he really that obscure after the band?

He managed to have his name associated with videos reliving the 60s in the 80s as well as doing the musical "Time" around 1986.

Poor word choice on my part.� I meant that the band has been resigned to being a footnote instead of a household name.� While I didn't realize what Dave Clark himself did after the band, I wasn't meaning to reduce him to triviality.

Ok, let me first say that I do very much like The Dave Clark Five, but I must object. To compare them to The Beatles is absurd. The DC5 was a pretty good regular old band, The Beatles were a world wide phenomenon that still is reverberating throughout the musical world. You wanna try to compare the Beatles to somebody, you better try The Rolling Stones or The Who, and even they don't measure up.

Other English bands of the period more important than the DC5: The Kinks, The Yardbirds, The Hollies, Peter and Gordon, Hermans Hermits (barely)

English bands of the period about as important as the DC5: The Animals, Gerry and the Pacemakers, The Searchers, Billy J Kramer and the Dakotas.

Like I said I really like the DC5, but lets keep some perspective!

I was simply trying to guide people to a group that's easily overlooked.� My comparison (if that's what the Beach Boys and Beatles line was) is directly from my dad, a man who, despite his haircut, chose the Beach Boys.� If I'm trivializing the most influential rock and roll band ever, then I apologize.� I will say for this and any other record that the Beatles have proven to be far more important and influential band than any other to date.

How are we grading importance?� Is this just a generally accepted priniciple?� Are we based on sales?� Airplay? Opinion?

Maybe I need to rediscover the 60's.� I would have raised Hermans Hermits and dropped Peter and Gordon. :-)

Amen to that.� If there's one decade I'm sorry I missed, being born when I was, it would probably have to be the 60's.� That said, I really don't know too much about 50's music.� And what about the 40's?� 30's?� I know some stuff from music history class but it usually gets all mixed up in my head and I only assign it to a century, not really a decade.� I think I'm going to take "Music In Popular Culture" in fourth year university, which covers everything from the 40's to the present.

"Am I just and old fogie or were the sixties special?"

Does one possibility exclude the other? [/rhetorial question]

To me the sixties opened almost half way through that decade whith "She loves you" blasting all that middle of the road stuff off the air waves, peaked with "Abbey Road","Led Zeppelin IV", Dark Side of the Moon" and "Sticky Fingers." Then the sixties rapidly petered out, so that decade only lasted about 8 years.

Sure, that period brought us heaps of atrocious stuff as well, ("Mother Darling" YUCK!) and a lot of excellent music was created before or since, but in the end it is a special period to me because of my age. I'd like to say it is a special period generally, but any other period had its classics and the classics of the sixties are unknown to the majority of people who are in their twenties or thirties now.

It's a generational thing. 15 years ago my daughter was as profoundly embarassed of me, when she accompanied me into a store to buy a Beatles CD as I might have been 25 years earlier accompanying one of my parents to buy a Perry Como 45.

I like sixties music a lot, but I like fifties music even better. as a small child I inheirited my dad's an uncle's 45 collection (along with one of those fabulous RCA 45 players they sold in the 50s--so simple a 3 year old can handle it!) and that is what I listened to for much of my childhood.

I feel like I've always been behind the curve. In the 60s and early 70s, I really only liked 50's music (which the way I define it includes anything pre-1964). In the late 70's I developed an appreciation for the music of the 60s but hated the music of the 70's and the then emergent Punk and New Wave genres. By 1983 I was finally liking Punk/New Wave, just in time for it to be over. (And I still hate mainstream 70s except for kitch value). But I definitely have a special place in my heart for the 50s. If I could only pick one period to listen to, that wuld be it. MMMM Vocal Harmony!

Actually the first part of the sixties (until '64) were pretty lightweight. Pat Boone and Elvis doing movie soundtracks.� If you count the 60's as being from say... '62-'72 I could pretty much agree with you. It was the last and the greatest era where the love of making music superceded the business end of things. At least to the artists. A very diverse time, where Simon & Garfunkel and Jefferson Airplane could both be popular music. And Iron Butterfly

I don't really disagree with you, but the period from '62 to '64 was pretty transitional. It did contain a lot more than just Pat Boone and Elvis (Both of whom were big well before then) (Not to mention that Elvis is a bonafied rocker. He was hardly considered "santized " like Boone was.) I picked '64 because that is when the British invasion happened and when music started to sound really different from the 50s. Before 64 there was still a lot of the "50's sound" around, and also the "50's style. You don't start seeing drug influence, or Mods, or psychedelia, or any of the "60's stuff" until about '64". Before that the 50's culture still totally dominated.

But yeah, '62 or '64 to '72 is about right for "The Sixties". The Seventies was actually a really short period from about 1972 to 1979, with the shark being jumped around '77).

1962 groups:

Booker T and the MGs
The Contours
The Beach Boys
The Exciters
The Four Seasons
Marvin Gaye
Bobby Goldsboro
Jay and the Americans
Carole King
Dickey Lee
Chris Montez
Peter Paul and Mary
Tommy Roe
Dee Dee Sharp
The Supremes
Bobby VInton
Little Eva
Jimmy Soul

And that's just from the beginning of the section on 1962 in Norm N. Nite's book "Rock On Almanac: The First Four Decades of Rock'n'Roll"

:)

Wasn't 1979 really in the 80's?� I mean, Blondie, Talking Heads, Rupert Holmes? :-)

Yes. That is what I'm saying. TO '79. Not Through '79. '79 is the eighties. Arguments can be made for '77 and '78. But of course these things are not clean cut. The whole world didn't change the night that Elvis Costello, or DEVO, or the B-52s played SNL, but a whole lot of things started shifting. Those who weren't into the 70's stuff were suddenly empowered.

I've always wondered about some of the underground artists of the time. I suspect that, like today, the bands you heard on radio weren't actually the best bands of the time. There must have been some incredible talent that never emerged. Back then, it was hard to get recorded, so most of them have been lost to the ages.

Two of my favorites from that era fall into the semi-obscure camp: The Incredible String Band and Amazing Blondel.

Nick Drake too (unless he's 70s and I'm mistaken). I don't think he came anywhere near the pop culture radar until a few years back.

Oh, duh. Yeah, he's partly 60s and partly early 70s. His best stuff, in my book, was the 70s, but still good stuff.

i think there's always a lot of great music going on in any time period. you just have to know where to look--and in the '60s, i don't think you had to look too far, because a lot of the great music was also popular music, while these days, you might have to do a little bit of digging below the pop culture radar to find the good stuff.

Right. In the 50s and early 60s there were a lot of semi-influential independant labels. It wasn't that hard to get recorded and published, at least regionally) By the mid-60s the big record labels had taken control again and a lot of the smaller artists dissapeared from the mainstream.

Some labels that are major today were not major in the 40s, 50s and 60s. They were indie labels.

Indies:
West Coast: Aladdin, Specialty, Imperial, Modern/RPM
East Coast: Atlantic, Savoy, National
South: Sun, Duke, Ace, Deluxe
Mid West: King, VeeJay, Chess

The 6 major labels during 40s and 50s were:

MGM
Mercury
Capitol
RCA
Decca
Columbia

I've always looked forward to the time that 70's and 80's music would be played on oldies radio. A few years ago, I realized that that was never going to happen. Each decade gets its own adjective.

60's = oldies
70's = classic
80's = retro

I'm still curious about what the nineties will be called, but I don't think we'll get a hint of it until 2011.

In the spirit of the original post, I don't think that the sixties were the greatest. I do think that the sixties were more experimental, open-minded, and artistic. But give me a five disc new wave set over a comparable sixties set any day.

> 60's = oldies

See, I think of "oldies" as being 50s stuff. Some of the early 60's stuff was under oldies in my mind, and the post-Beatles 60s music is under classic rock in my head.

Lord knows what they'll call 90s music. There's nothing much to lump it under like the other decades.

I was thinking that originally, but oldies radio plays more Beatles than classic rock radio.� I think Hendrix was more of a turning point... maybe the Who.� The Beatles of 1964 were definitely oldies... and it was evolution from there.

I realize using radio as an indicator is a bit off, but where else would people classify music?

I also find it odd (but strangely conforting) that retro stations concentrate on anything pre-1985.�

Well, I've noticed that since classic rock took off, the oldies stations have changed their format a bit. Some have gone back to the older edges of it (more 50s and early 60s) while others have gone as late as the mid-70s.

Using the term "retro" for the 80s bothers me the same way the term "Modern" for the 60s (or 1900s-50s if we're talking literature) bothers me. Does that mean that 90s music will be called Post-Retro?

Does that mean that 90s music will be called Post-Retro?

<bias type="music snob">
Well, presumably, for it to be labelled means that a fair chunk of it's going to have to be remembered. I wouldn't bet on that, right now.
</bias>

Sounds like the argument my dad had against anything released after he graduated high school. :-)

The 90's will be remembered musically.� It's just that the people who remember it aren't old enough to have any power yet.

Yes.

exactly, In New York at least post Beatles 60s music is played on the Classic Rock station. CBS, the oldies station will play some 60s and 70s music but their bread and butter is the 50s.

I need to research this one, but there aren't many 50's artists that are sticking out in my mind.� Sure, you have Buddy Holly (and, by default, The Big Bopper and Ritchie Valens) and Elvis Presley (who maintained a pretty solid career into the 70's, so this could be a stretch.)� Who else?� Most of the artists I hear and enjoy on oldies radio are from a blessedly short span of time, the pre-Beatles 60's.

Again, I have some research do to on this one... don't be surprised if I retract this statement later. :-)

Chuck Berry?
(Although I've heard that he stole one of his songs from some kid named Calvin Klein :-)

I saw him in 1990. No one wanted to sing "My Ding a Ling"!

Then he got arrested for putting a camera in the women's bathroom in his restaurant.

Hmmm seems everytime I see an "old act" someone always gets arrested.

Like Clarence Clemmons after the Ringo Starr and the All Star Band tour in '89. Artists from the 50s...let's see:
Bo Diddley
Little Richard
Bill Haley and the comets
Danny and the Juniors
Ray Charles
Fats Domino
The Clovers
The Drifters
The Chordettes

and that was just from 1955.

Your oldies stations do not play anything by those artists?

Heh, yeah, the original Clyde McPhatter Drifters. None of this Ben E. King nonsense. :) I don't know how widely played they were, though. I get the sense that the original drifters didn't really crack the white charts, though they were stars on the "race" charts.

Also, if Little Richard did a song, then Pat Boone or another white artist covered it.

So the kids would buy both records, but play Little Richard's version and keep Pat Boone's version over it so that Mom and Dad would think they were listening to a "good clean wholesome white boy." ;)

What I said was that none of the artists were sticking out in my mind.� But, looking at the list, I could hardly say that they dominate the playlist at my local oldies station.� Who are the Clovers?

The Drifters were still recording in the 70's... they might even still be recording today.� Their most popular cuts (subject to argument) was from the Ben E. King period, roughly 1959-1960.

I do apologize for neglecting Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Ray Charles, and the Drifters.� I'll probably apologize for some others when the continuing lists arrive.

Clovers were on Atlantic records (an indie label at that time) and sang "One Mint Julep" and "Love Potion No. 9".

...and Good Lovin´, and Lovey Dovey, and Blue Velvet, and Devil Or Angel. It's actually facinationg stuff. I thought those first two were Drifters tunes.

The reason that you don't know their names is that this was the era of the independant label, and most of the acts with hits were one or two hit wonders. That was the typical story back then. Some names you shuld know, however, would be Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, Roy Orbison, Little Richard, The Platters, The 5 Satins, The Del Vikings, Frankie Lymon and The Teenagers, Bill Haley and The Comets, and The Coasters to name but a few.

I can name a few others, but the times all run together.� I'm pretty sure that the Marcels were in the 50's, but I'd hate to say something like "The Fleetwoods" and be called out for not doing my research.� Maybe it's just the stations that I'm listening to, but I'm certain that our local oldies stations are playing more 60's than 50's... and that they're slowly sacrificing these "indie label" artists on the alter of name recognition.�

Yes, I know all of the names you've listed.� I can even put a song to most of them.� But, really, which is more likely to get airplay, "Blueberry Hill" or "Limbo Rock?"� (I was going to say "The Twist,"� but it was released in 1959... although it didn't hit until 1960, and was going strong enough for a 1961 reissue.)� "Great Balls of Fire" or "Mrs. Brown, You've Got a Lovely Daughter?"� "Rock Around The Clock" or "Burnadette?"� Sure, all of these are great songs (except maybe "Limbo Rock"), but you'll hear the second choices much more often.�

My oldies station plays Limbo Rock a lot. :)

And now I'm earwormed with it. =)

Bernadette by the Four Tops was released in March 1967.

My point exactly.� In each of those pairs, the first cut was a 50's track and the second was a 60's track.

Actually the Marcel's were a bit late in the game. (I knew that, so I checked) turns out that Blue Moon was in '61, but certainly culturally in the 50s.

Fleetwoods (ugh!) were late 50s and early 60s. They only had 2 hits that anyone would remember (Come Softly to Me and Mr. Blue, both in '59).

As for the rest of what you said... You will? I think you hear your first choices more than the second. They are much bigger songs after all.

And, credit where it is due, let's not forget Hank Ballard and the Midnighters, who wrote and first released The Twist in '58.

As much as I like "Blue Moon,"� I should have known that.� I knew about Hank Ballard and the Midnighters (sort of. I knew it was somebody, and that Dick Clark pushed to get it rerecorded.� Didn't he try Danny and the Juniors for it?)� But most of the credit for these songs belongs to the DJ's and the record companies.� Of course, payola is the real reason why some are remembered and others aren't, but that's neither here nor there.� From my reading, many of the groups were session musicians who put together the song then parted ways.

I stand by what I said.� You probably have a better oldies station than I do.

actually, I can only speak for the vancouver local oldies station, Senile C-isle 650.

This is the station I listened to from ooh. grade 8, until well into high school, when the christian station 600 switched over to jazz, then I'd flip back and forth between the two. And still do whenever I'm driving in vancouver.

Senile played mostly 50's-60's. with some 40's a few years back they started letting some early 70's leak in. I'm not sure what it's like right now as I haven't listened to much radio play the last two years.

out of your list :
"Blueberry Hill" and "Limbo Rock" I'd say 50-50. and I actually think I've heard blueberry hill more on the radio, but I had a chubby checker tape with limbo rock so it's hard to say.

yah "Mrs Brown, You've got a Lovely daughter" would probably win over "Great Balls of Fire."

but "Rock Around the Clock" definately gets more airplay than "Burnadette"

I will say that C-isle doesn't give 50's music the shaft.
"All hail"