Jump The Shark - The Music Edition

So some of you may have heard of the term "Jump The Shark" in TV shows, the moment that the show starting turing for the worse, until it finally died.

Well, at what point do you think this may have happened with your favorites bands or performers, or maybe it hasn't happened yet and they are still getting better...

The guy who started the "Jump the Shark" site has a book out on the same topic; he talks about movies, music, and everything under the sun. I was interested in buying it, but his entry on R.E.M. was disgustingly inaccurate (ok, I do agree with him that they jumped the shark with Monster, but he got all sorts of other little facts wrong, and as an R.E.M. geek, that pissed me off), so it turned me off to buying the book.

I don't think any of the performers I see on a regular basis have jumped the shark yet. Great Big Sea's latest album has the potential for shark-jumping, what with the drummer and all. And there was the time when EFO decided that their current lineup was getting too old and not cute enough anymore, and they brought in a whole new group of new cute kids to join the band, and the season that Fruvous were suddenly transplanted from Toronto to Bayside, California, and of course that DVN concert where Paul and Storm finally gave into that sexual tension we'd been watching for years and got married.

And I'm writing purely for my own amusement, so I'll shut up now. Great topic, John. :)

Hehe. I see:

EFO = Menudo
Fruvous = Saved By The Bell: The College Years
DVN = Moonlighting after Maddie and David "did it"

Let's see if Clem brings this up at a show. :)

One word Thornhill

Runs away before Lawrence reads this.

almost, but not quite. fruvous = the switch from "good morning, miss bliss" to "saved by the bell."

Usually when a band jumps the shark its because they try something new and it doesn't work. The beatles and byrds kept metamorphizing but they were good at whatever they tried. Other bands aren't as lucky. Funny bands try to get serious. Rock bands go easy listening. Folkies rock out. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. When they don't realize it doesn't work that's when they are in trouble.

My favorite non shark jump was when Miranda Sex Garden switched from medievel madrigals to punk rock. I thought they both worked. They didn't and reformed as The Mediaeval Baebes and went back to the madrigals.

for efo i was also thinking of the long-standing sitcom tradition of bringing in new, cute little kids when the formerly cute little kids were getting too old. cases in point, cousin oliver on "the brady bunch" and jesse and rebecca's twins on "full house."

Don't forget.....

Growing Pains
Family Ties
The Cosby Show

One of the categories on Jumptheshark.com is the "New Kid On The Block" category.

What would be the categories for Music? I think Gordon has the big one, acts doing something they don't normally do, experiment in other words.

Fruvous were never really exclusively a "funny band," tho. They were a band who did some funny songs and had some funny banter. Even on the indie tape and Bargainville they had more serious, thoughtful music. I don't think you can consider Thornhill jumping the shark; their live shows were still excellent, they got on "Conan" and CBS and they continued to get radio play. You can't really point to Thornhill and say that it was the cause of some sort of decline. Unless you can prove that Thornhill was the direct cause of the C album, the hiatus, and Jian's TV career.

Actually the jumped back with C, that was their redemption.

I think Thornhill was there attempt at Stunt, dropping their eccentricities for mass appeal.

Stunt brings up an interesting point, lots of people consider it when BNL jumped the shark yet it is the album that got most people interested in them.

muahahahahaaa. good call, gordondon. *skedaddles*

yes! indeedy it is :) that's how i got into them. it's one of my favorite albums in the whole world ever. gordon (the album, hehe) is also one of my current obsessions. :) but i hate maroon. i think that one's the sharkymonster. :D

Ugh! C sucked. Bigtime! Only three good songs on the disc. Give me Thornhill *any* day over C.

The whole point about jumping the shark is that you have some stupid gimmicky thing which, in hindsight, was the last gasp of a dying show. Like the whole Kilroy Was Here, Styx as new wave theater thing. Absolute death.

I agree - C was a big disappointment. If it weren't for Guinea Pig (and the fact I paid like $15 for it), I woulda chucked it. An since it was self produced, it made them enough money to go on haitus... so we were double f**ked.

"he wanted me to write songs about robots! I COULDN'T WRITE SONGS ABOUT ROBOTS!"
sorry. too much "behind the music" here.

Duran Duran - Notorious

two band members left, d00ds give it up. :)

Agreed!
I loooooooooove maroon.
I don't think they've gone downhill at all....
(and no, that was not a play on thornhill)

I think that was the point.
C was post-jump...... thornhill was "iffy"... C just sucked donkey balls.

See, I don't know that ANYONE would label them a "funny band" though..... at least, noone who really listened to their music.

So, I don't think that's in debate here.

well, that was part of gordon's point...he doesn't like thornhill or wood cos he thinks fruvous should stick to the funny stuff. but i'll let him talk for himself. :)

I would and I know lots of people who agree with me. They aren't just a funny band but i have never heard anyone describe them to people who didn't know them not use the word funny or some similar word.

listen to live noise there is lots of laughter in the audience. Why do people think it's somehow insulting to call them funny. There are lots of bands who play their instruments better. there are plenty of bands that harmonize as well. The thing that sets fruvous apart is their wit.

Who wanted you to? Warren? His thing was robots you know :-)

I think they jumped the shark with either Rock Spectacle or Stunt.

That's when all the "one weekers" appeared. ICK!

I do like Wood, it's not their best but it was an interesting change of pace with some really good songs. Thornhill has one good song, Splatter Splatter which doesn't fit with the rest of the album. Then it has a few acceptable songs and a bunch of painful ones. oO When she talks I put earplugs in Oo

you're an idiot.

i'm not sure that was called for. or constructive. or even polite.

i like the first five songs on maroon... and then it just all goes downhill for me. whereas stunt is one of those rare albums i have where i like *all* the songs. i could listen to stunt all day... except that my only copy right now is a taped copy and i've had it for four years already and it's getting all worn out :D *awaits new cd copy for birthday in a week's time*

domo arigato, mr roboto... domo, domo, domo, domo, domo, domo, domo, domo, domodomodomodomodomodomodomodomo (etc)

*cue frantic jumping up and down*

I'm with you on this one. I first heard BNL right before Rock Spectacle came out, liked all the previous albums, then liked Stunt, but hated Maroon.

However, I should give it another listen because sometimes I'm more receptive to new albums than others.

robots aren't just cute like everybody supposes.

Yes, No, No - deal with it.

my sister has a cute robot dog. does that count?

oh wait... it's not cute. it's annoying as hell. :D

Gordon, didn't you like Thornhill, or are you just teasing Lawrence?

If there are any Dummies fans, how about "A Worm's Life." ? Kind of a bumpy road from there on.

I really don't like Thornhill. Look at my profile for what Jian calls "The imfamous 40 page treatise."

Which Fruvous album is your favorite?

Live Noise. I always preferred them in concert to in the studio. The first time I heard Bargainville I was so disappointed.

Of the studio albums my favorite is YWGTTM.

Live Noise is my favorite, too. When I band spends so much of its time on tour, studio albums seem pointless. Not that I don't enjoy them...but yeah, I agree.

Agreed on all... except for the disappointed part. I didn't get disappointed with Bargainville until a couple years in.

i still love bargainville! it's my faaaavourite :) so many childhood memories with that album playing in the background :D

did the beatles ever do it, do you think?

two words: yoko ono.

A number of events are often quoted as the beginning of the end of the Beatles:

Brain Epstein dies.
Magical Mystery Tour.
Apple Records.
The Get Back sessions.
Yoko Ono.

Some refer to the beginning of the end of the musicality of the Beatles, so refer to the beginning of the inevitable breakup.

In my mind, the musicality has always been bursting forth as the Beatles got more freedom, except for Ringo. George always wrote great songs, they justnever made it on any albums, and the best songs Paul and John did were songs that they lend a little bit of hand to (The only songs that were true Lennon-McCartney compositions were those written in a hurry to make a deadline.)

But as those freedoms were allowed to make themselves known, they were already growing apart, wanting to do their own thing. Then Brian died, who was truly their father figure as a band. Paul took over as the leader, which John HATED. Paul was basically the brains Sgt. Pepper and MMT (John even said songs like Mr. Kite and Walrus were only written because they needed a song of two from him for the album. Mr. Kite taken from a poem, and Walrus as a song to confuse the hell out of people analyzing their lyrics.)

Then the Apple Record debacle, and then they REALLY got on each others nerves for the Get Back sessions, which became the Let It Be film. Today, they'd call the Get Back sessions a reality TV show, and they all felt intruded upon with all the cameras, and Yoko and Linda being around 24/7 didn't help much either.

As their egos grew, they great apart, as humans do. Said they couldn't keep themselves in check, but at least we got 8 great years out of them for all it's worth, and it is worth a lot. Even the songs they did in a "hurry" most people wish they could do just once in their lifetimes.

End Beatles History Lesson. There will be a quiz later. :)

No one even mentioned "C" ::shudder::

i thought mr. kite was based on an antique circus poster. but i'm not a beatlemaniac, i just always seem to be friends with 'em, so i could be wrong.

Ack...I think they further jumped with "C." That is one CD I can't believe I paid $15 american for.

I think BNL jumped the shark before Stunt...with the HORDE tour. Or was that during the release of Stunt?

Or maybe when their song appeared on Friends in the episode "The One with Two Parties" after BoaPS was released. Or maybe when they covered a song on that Disney CD. :)

I also read that too. The poster is found in the book by Derek Taylor's "It Was Twenty Years Ago Today" on page 41. Or is Derek Taylor wrong when he wrote the book?

Doh, I meant to say a poster and I wrote poem, my bad there. Thanks for the correction.

I liked a lot of the Thornhill songs but I prefer to listen to the shows on tape because I think the production **sucks** on the album... I think one of the FruLads told me "yeah, we got Don Dixon! He's worked with Matthew Sweet!" I confirmed my suspicions when I looked at all my Matthew Sweet records and saw Dixon has ONE CO-producing credit on ONE song on hirst FIRST cd in 86 when he was doing the cheesy mid-80s electronic synthesizer junk... but I digress! ;)

The Beatles jumped the shark when Pete Best left.

Pete Best didn't leave, he was fired.

you mean he didn't try to pull the "you can't fire me! I quit!" thing?

Knowing that he was fired over Ringo, he was probably too embarassed to do just that. :)

*ahem*

The insult comes not when it is implied that Fruvous is a funny band... that, as you have pointed out, would be absolutely rediculous, as we all know how much we laugh at their shows and how many amusing songs they have written. The insult comes, rather, when the implication is that they are *only* a funny band and should not bother to try reaching outside that pigeonhole.

A friend of mine once told me that he never really listened to Fruvous because they were basically just a musical comedy act, and he didn't go for that kind of thing. That got me a bit upset because to me personally, and to a lot of people I know, many of Moxy Fruvous' more serious songs are beautiful and balanced compositions of both lyrical and musical elements that can have a profound emotional impact. I have to disagree with you, Gordon. I love Thornhill. I love all of their albums (and we'll hold off on a discussion of C for the time being). Each has a distinct flavor which sets it apart from the others. My first was Bargainville, which drew me in with the harmonies and quirky lyrics. I enjoyed the comic element and still do, but I always felt that there was more depth to them and their music.

Many felt that Fruvous jumped the shark with Wood, which is where the fanbase shrank and began to resemble a community, as I understand the history of it. In a way, Wood was like the hiatus in the sense that it weeded out casual listeners and strengthened the loyalty of the real "fans" who could appreciate the band beyond its "novelty" status.

Sorry... bit of off-the-cuff analysis there...

I personally don't want to make any final assesments about Fruvous jumping the shark until one of two things happens: 1. the hiatus ends and we get more new stuff from them, or 2. the hiatus ends and they announce to us, the general public, their breakup.

Now I'll just sit and listen.

Is anyone old enough to remember the cartoons Rolling Stone magazine did in the late 80s or early 1990s at the last page where they would do great moments in rock history?

I have one in my scrapbook, "Pete Best gets his pink slip." With him showing that he was fired.

I wish rolling stone didn't stop publishing those cartoons. There were a few other ones, "Chuck Berry Gets an Idea" after seeing some ducks walking and Buddy Holly picking out his new glasses. :)

I've always loved Bargainville since the day it was released - I remember being there at the record store the day it came out and it's enjoyed rotation around here ever since. :)

go, girl! ;)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Yea Gella!

don dixon also coproduced some of rem's earliest work and did a pretty amazing job with those. uh. yeah.

Yes, Ma'am. Amen sister.

Well said Gella you rock!

no, there's nothing wrong with killer robots from venus!

So you were yelling in my ear at a Stunt concert they were filming for "Barenaked in America" yelling "If we yell during the slow songs maybe we'll wind up in the movie!"

Then Mike Wood hit the chick on the head by accident LOL! Damn groupie.

You can hear it on the tape..."OOOOWWW!"

Hence "One Weekers" aka "People who only can sing the songs from "Stunt" and when songs from "BoAPS" are played, they don't know what to do with themselves and b**ch and moan saying.."I don't know this song.""

The HORDE tour was eeeevvvviillll. That part of their concerts I skipped. It was like all of america found this "new band" that was even featured on "Friends" years before Stunt.

However prior to Stunt, I saw BNL for free twice (Memorial Day 1996 and 1997)...and when you had to pay, their tickets were only $15-20 a piece. $35 to see them, same banter and setlists isn't worth it.

Musical comedy/improv? Try "The Impromptones."

Personally, from Fruvous, I'm still waiting for my free fruhead t-shirt that I was supposed to receive in 1997 after my 6 shows and Jude always said "Oh yes, it's in the mail."

Yup, check's in the mail too. Uh huh.

Then they put it on MapleMusic where others got to purchase it and it sold out before I could get there.

Oh well c'est la vie.

TMBG also has Floodies. Dream Theater has people who only like Pull Me Under (So much so the band stopped playing it for years.)

Ever been to any shows where it was obvious the audience was there to hear ONE song? (Old-school Fruheads from the days where Fruvous REFUSED to play King of Spain, I'm looking your way....)

um, well, this isn't going to be such an obvious answer, because a lot of Chicago audiences will turn up for any show in force, but then tend to get wasted and/or talk through the WHOLE show... that's 4+hours worth of talking! Who has that much to say? Anyway, at Lowen & Navarro shows, a lot of people tend to listen for "Constant As The Night" (from 94, gets minor airplay on WXRT) and then drink and talk, then they do an acoustic singalong in the audience at the end, so the drunken masses shout along to "We Belong" and "Seven Bridges"... I mean, they have a good following, but I don't see how half the audience remembers anything from the shows. Doh!
For Jackopierce, the audiences tend to be of the Dave Matthews frat-boy variety for the most part, and they always yell for either "Please Come to Boston" or "Vineyard." Ugh!

One of my pals paid good money a while back to see Queensryche JUST to see them play "Silent Lucidity." Whoooa.

Flood was their first album, right?

;)

I think from a band's point of view, the only thing worse than having the whole crowd collective shout of for one of your songs is when they collectively shout out for one of someone else's song.

This occurred at a Reel Big Fish show where everyone wanted to hear Take On Me. They appreciated the fact that I yelled out for a different song, one of their more obscure instrumentals, "241", and then proceeded to play it. :)

I can see why these radio festivals work so well. Have a bunch of artists do the only one or two hits that the radio listeners know, and you've got an instant hot ticket.