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Poll: Fur is:

murder!!! murder, i say!!*shakes fist* 17 (19%)
growing steadily on the yogurt in my fridge... 11 (12%)
growing steadily on my back..... 5 (6%)
now interwoven with the material of my couch *damn pets* 32 (36%)
mur is furder. i dyslexic am. 2 (2%)
draped over my shoulders right now. i'm FABULOUS!! 4 (4%)
a tasty alternative to vegetables. 13 (15%)
something i know nothing about, you insensitive clod. 5 (6%)
   Discussion: Fur is:
ellen, formerly evil · 16 years, 4 months ago
And woe! It is difficult to clean up! Silly cats and their silly shedding. *grumble*
Andrea Krause Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
A. Men. Two of 'em longish-haired, no less. Sigh. :)
Phoenix · 16 years, 4 months ago
oO. Fur is already dead, ... Oo.

Complete this sentence and you get a cookie. Sort of.
lawrence Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
and besides, a name like that doesn't make a good acronym. :)
Phoenix Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
*applauds*
lawrence · 16 years, 4 months ago
it might have been ok, but it's no longer necessary for survival, due to the development of warm synthetic material. and its primary use is for people to show off how much money they have and how little they care about animals.
Starfox Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
I think it is wrong to kill an animal solely for it's pelt. However, if you are killing the animal for sustinence (i.e. deer hunting), then the animal is dead, and it is better to use all of the animal, than throw out perfectly useful pelts.

Honestly speaking though, having worn both animal fur and some of the best synthetic materials and nothing comes close to providing the warmth of animal fur.
stealthlori Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
However, if you are killing the animal for sustinence (i.e. deer hunting), then the animal is dead, and it is better to use all of the animal, than throw out perfectly useful pelts.

Agreed. I don't like wearing animal products, but if they're from animals I eat -- leather or suede, for example -- it doesn't seem so callous as farmed furs. (The cruelty of factory farming and animal processing aside.) And that is how most subsistence cultures also take and use fur.

The practice of farming animals expressly for their pelts, for fashion not need, revolts me. To me it implies no respect for any life other than human, and no recognition of the stewardship responsibilities that come with deciding to kill another creature for human benefit.

On the other hand, I have a mink stole that belonged to my husband's great-great-aunt, and I won't get rid of it because -- it's already dead. It's already been purchased once. Giving it to charity may well put it on the market again in a resale shop, and continue in some small way to drive the market for vanity furs. And throwing it out, or splotching it with red paint, or otherwise wasting it is truly wasting the lives of the minks. So on suitable occasions, in suitable weather conditions, I may wear it.

So far I have worn it exactly twice in eight years. 1) to an elegant restaurant in Ottawa in February. 2) Hedwig wore it once for about 2 hours.
ellen, formerly evil Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
but it's no longer necessary for survival, due to the development of warm synthetic material

If you live in a rich, industrialized country where you can get such things, because in truth, fur is probably cheaper and far easier to come by than synthetics in some places.

If I lived in Siberia or Sweden, I'd wear fur, too.
Nathan Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
There's a lot of fake meat that's easily available, too. Couldn't you say the same thing about that?
Pacho · 16 years, 4 months ago

mur is furder. i dyslexic am.

I think this is the dyslexic yoda option

odoitau Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
Correct you are! Prize you will win! Answer skill testing question you must!

What of the dyslexic agnostic insomniacs became, hmmmm?
iPauley Back · 16 years, 4 months ago

he stayed up all night wondering if there really was a dog.

*rim shot*

-- Pauley

zil Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
rim shot? dude this a is a family site! ;-)
*joolee* Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
*snicker*
renita · 16 years, 4 months ago
how about fur is THE best material for providing warmth and protection from the elements? It also lasts much longer than synthenic substances.

And I'm not so sure those synthetic substances are so environmentally friendly as they're being produced.

if an animal is killed for meat, I think it's better to use the whole thing.

Yah sure, those huge fur coats, made of mink or whatever, where the animal has been raised in a farm, okay fair enough, that's about pretention, fur doesn't do so much when it's facing out.

And that's pretty dumb, I grant you that.

But to slam the Fur industry as a whole, I call that very misinformed.

*goes off to club a seal, and if no one's looking I'll make sure it's a cute fuzzy white one, illegal, as they're too young*
Josh Woodward Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
> if an animal is killed for meat, I think it's better to use the whole thing.

Huh? That's like a vegetarian saying that it's ok to eat a flank steak, because if you're going to kill a cow for the prime rib, you might as well eat the rest.
nate... Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
I don't think that was her point...

At least from my perspective, if an animal is going to be killed, I'd rather see all of its parts used.... not just the meat, or the fur.

Like, I'm gonna eat beef, so cows are gonna die.... and if the cows die, we may as well also use the leather, etc.
Ya know?

iPauley Back · 16 years, 4 months ago

that's how I read it.

o/` postin' "me too!" like some brain-dead AOL'er...o/`

-- Pauley

Phoenix Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
Nah. That's still way too literate for some brain dead AOLer. You should remedy that by using this special translator.
Michael (foof) Maki · 16 years, 4 months ago
::shrug:: I think this basically comes down to the standard humans-saving-cute-animals mentality. I mean, how many anti-fur people wear exclusively synthetic materials?

I fail to see the difference between raising cattle for beef and leather and, say, minks for their pelts.
Jillian Bird Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
I think a lot of anti-fur people and vegetarians/vegans at least try avoid wearing anything made of animal.  I think there is a difference between raising mink strictly for their fur and making leather out of cows because, as was previously mentioned, there are other uses for a cow carcas whereas with a dead mink, all you have is a nice pelt.  I will, however, admit that I am completely biased.   I have a pet chinchilla named Wanda and it kind of creeps me out thinking of anything that might hurt her.  She could have just as easily ended up in a rich woman's closet rather than becoming a part of my family.  
renita Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
what I find so odd about that, is the damge to the environment producing synthetic materials causes.

don't kill the seals, but ruin the habitat by drillin for the oil that will become the synthetic fiber for a winter jacket.
Starfox Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
While I haven't had mink, most animals make for tasty little dishes.
Bruce Rose Back · 16 years, 4 months ago

I don't think I'd try it.  One of the books I read says that the mink is just a stinky little weasel.  Like a ferret with better fur.  It also said that wild mink are vicious and farmers are glad to be rid of them.  This was a fiction book, but the author does pretty good research.

Of course, I can't find anything about the smell online. *shrug*

Starfox Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
Oh I'm convinced that most animal flesh can be cooked in some way to make it palatable. For example, quail. Really tough, really sinewy meat. Tastes great slow smoked or in a stew.

It's all about preperation. Most of the smell probably comes from the pelt or glands which wouldn't be part of the flesh that is cooked.
renita Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
mmm quail.

I just realized, it's been a few years since we've had quail :(

very sad that.
Andrea Krause Back · 16 years, 4 months ago

I saw wild turkeys milling around the highway median this morning. Heee. Cute turkeys.

renita Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
i wonder if they'd taste any good...
Starfox Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
Yes, but not as good as turkeys raised solely as food. Wild turkeys tend to be tougher meat and not quite as juicy. You also have to cook them thoroughly which tends to make the meat kind of try. With any wild animal it's not generally a good idea to under cook the meat.
Josh Woodward Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
You're right. Wild animals are allowed to, like, move. It's a little tastier when grow them in a cage and not give those pesky muscles a chance to develop.
renita Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
actually, I was thinking more along the lines of them being next to the highway.

I wonder what they'd be eating there, and how it would affect the taste.

A friend of my dad's used to duck hunt, and he gave us a couple, one of them (thankfully the last one we ate) tasted like ditch water. :p

In general however, I find I like wild meat, including birds , better than those raised, they just seem to have more flavour, although, yah--often they are tougher/drier, drier also because they have less fat--not just because of the longer cook time.
Phoenix Back · 16 years, 4 months ago

I'd concur. Wild meat definitely tends to have more flavour and less fat isn't a disadvantage.

You tried ditch water? Ew.   *hides*

Michael (foof) Maki Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
Jesus. Starfox and I agree?!

::faints dead away::
Starfox Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
Only one explanation. Statistics. It had to happen sooner or later. :)
Michael (foof) Maki Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
That's fine, but how it it morally better to raise an animal for its skin *and* meat than just for one or the other?

And the other parts of the minks *do* get used. They use the rendered fat as a protectant for leather, and the rest gets used other ways, I'm sure.

As for your chinchilla...well, no one is saying that we should round up all the furry animals and make mittens out of them or something (although my cat, Rosie, would make an extrordinarily luxe pair of gloves). But we're at the top of the food chain. Everything we does affects the other forms of life on Earth. If it comes down to the rights of a cow or mink or whatever vs. a spiffy new jacket for me, I'd choose the jacket every time.
nate... Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
how it it morally better to raise an animal for its skin *and* meat than just for one or the other?

Because, in my opinion, it's wasteful not to use all the products of a given carcass.
Michael (foof) Maki Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
Because, in my opinion, it's wasteful not to use all the products of a given carcass.

...but that's not what we're arguing about. All the products of a given carcass "are" used.

The only question is what the "main" reason for raising an animal is. And who am I to say whether it's more virtuous to kill an animal for hamburger or for a coat?

I think that a lot of this issue boils down to a kind of low-grade class warfare. It's not precisely risky for a poor college student to decry the death of ___________s for products enjoyed primarily by society matrons with more money than fashion sense.

Overall, I kind of view the vegetarian/vegan/anti-fur people all the same way: If this is a stand you support, then great, and more power to you. But don't assume the fact that you've taken it up as a cause makes it inherently virtuous. And most of all, stop making such a nuisance of yourselves. You'd likely win more converts by not being such shrill nitwits.
Bruce Rose Back · 16 years, 4 months ago

And most of all, stop making such a nuisance of yourselves. You'd likely win more converts by not being such shrill nitwits.

I love this statement.  It's painfully true and almost universally ignored. 

If only I could have conviced Target shoppers of this.  The service desk would have been a much better place to work. :-)

Mamalissa! Back · 16 years, 4 months ago

And the other parts of the minks *do* get used. They use the rendered fat as a protectant for leather, and the rest gets used other ways, I'm sure.

In high school, we disected minks in biology class.  They came from the fur factory.  Apparently, the ones that don't get splayed open by 16-yr-olds are made into feed for the other minks.  Must be the source of that mad mink disease.

Jillian Bird Back · 16 years, 4 months ago

As for your chinchilla...well, no one is saying that we should round up all the furry animals and make mittens out of them or something.

I never said that I thought my chinchilla was in danger of some late night sniper attack by a crazed 50 year old socialite intent on having a snazy new coat.  I'm just saying that, had her fate been slightly different, she could have just as easily ended up at the fur factory as at the pet store and then in my bedroom where she spoiled by raisins and dust baths to her heart's content.  My point is, when you have a personal relationship with an animal, it's harder to see things objectively.  Whenever I see somebody wearing fur, I think "that could have been Wanda".  I'm not about to go yell at the person, or throw paint on them as some, more zealous folks might, but i feel a certain empathy I would never have had if I hadn't had this pet. 

But we're at the top of the food chain. Everything we does affects the other forms of life on Earth.

You're absolutly right.  And we've done a craptacular job.

renita Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
I think a lot of my viewpoint on the subject comes from the fact that my family has always been very open about where animal products come from.

When I was 5, my family raised rabbits, my sister and I each had a pet "bunny" these were sacred, however, we ate rabbit on a regular basis, and I saw my father kill one, I didn't eat dinner that night, but afterwards I was okay.

I was about 10 when I saw my first deer carcass.

When I was in my mid-teens, as my father was going hunting, I asked him if he could bring back the hide, I wanted to try tanning it. Turned out his hunting partner had the same idea that year and the hide was part of his portion. dang. after that my father just said he didn't want to have to deal with the mess if I didn't do it right. :( and then I lost interest

I'm not sure where I'm going with this ... other than that.

From a very young age I've had access to the cute and furry as both pet and "family member" and tonight's main course. and so it doesn't bother me so much.
Magical Bob · 16 years, 4 months ago
In my expert opinion, Fur is Fru with the letters switched around. And that's all I have to say on the subject.
Erica: movin' to Ohio!! · 16 years, 4 months ago
yay!!! my poll.*happy*
Misch · 16 years, 4 months ago
Something I'm allergic to.
Annika · 16 years, 4 months ago
I want to know who voted that fur is a tastey alternative to vegetables! Eww!
renita Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
heheheheheheh.
Kris 'engaged' Bedient · 16 years, 4 months ago
Speaking as an animal who was hunted and killed, I am glad that I was eaten and my hide was turned into a nice coat. Better than sitting and rotting in the woods. This way, my son was spared the smell of his mother decomposing. Would have been nice to have lived a few more years, but oh well. At least my carcass was well used.
renita Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
and you tasted real nice in the wild game pie.

the roast was a bit gamey...

but the steaks. those were great!

and your bones rendered nice for some good soup.

thanks!
nate... Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
Mmmm... bambi's mom......
Kris 'engaged' Bedient Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
Why does that just sound so . . . dirty, coming from you?
renita Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
because everything that nate says sounds a little dirty.

add a "mmm" to it and WOH! instant dirtification.
nate... Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
*takes a bow*

:D
renita Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
does that make bambi's mom a MILE?

(mother i'd like to eat)
Phoenix Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
*dies laughing*

*crashes on keyboard*

You've just made me scare my cow orkers :->
renita Back · 16 years, 4 months ago
\o/

my work here is done.

*bows*

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