Many people feel that the FHDC community is breaking down. I'm not one of them but if enough people believe it will be true.
People who have been here for years feel unwelcome. By whom? We are the ones that do the welcoming. Think of how many of your friends are also here.
If you want things to be like they were just go on the wall and talk to you friends. If someone tries to interfere ignore them.
I've made so many friends here. When I was sick and needed support most of the people that called me in the hospital were Fruheads. I met most of the right here. That's what a community is about.
FHDC is still a great group of people. For its size, it's amazing that people get along so well, especially since the site was designed as a single area and without separate sections for cliques. Fruheads as a whole are very nice, positive, fun and welcoming.
Random trivia: March 2003 has been the most active month on the wall in two years. As strange as it sounds with Fruvous on hiatus, we're still going through growing pains. The more people who join in, the more conflicts you'll see.
Yes, we have trolls. Any community with a size approaching 5,000 members does. Like Gordon says, ignore 'em and they'll hopefully go away.
The community is changing, as it always does. New blood comes in and keeps things interesting, while others move on. It's a Good Thing.
*posts against her better judgment*
The community is changing, as it always does. New blood comes in and keeps things interesting, while others move on. It's a Good Thing.
change in general is a good thing, i'll admit. new people are a good thing, too. we were all new once. but i don't think people moving on here -is- a good thing, because from those i've talked to who are gone, it's not because they "moved on", it's because they were driven away.
i don't know. i don't have any answers. i don't know what exactly is happening and i definitely don't know how to fix it, if anyone can, or even if it should be fixed. it just makes me sad that i don't see people i love here anymore because they're tired of dealing with others who do not respect the community.
i don't want to be one of those irritating old timers (because that would be laughable. i'm barely a fruhead), and i definitely don't want to create drama. i just wanted to raise my hand and say "yeah, i've been discontent around here lately".
that is all. *dons asbestos underwear*
I'm with you there, Jaci. I wrote an entry here that touched on that a little. I think the people who have been around for a long time are feeling pushed out. I don't know what the answer is either, and lord knows I've had enough drama lately, but yeah. I have no intention of leaving, but it's been different around here, and not in a way that's made me feel extremely comfortable.
So.. what's the problem? What are us newbies doing that is causing people to leave? What kinds of things are we doing that makes others think we are not respecting the community? I think we all understand there is a problem, a lot of butting heads, but what is it that we can do to change this?
I think a lot of the conflict is coming from the fact that since Fruvous isn't touring, people are sitting around talking about ideas and experiences, which are bound to differ widely amongst a generally intelligent fanbase. I think one of the things that gets me grouchy about newbies is the need to opine, frequently and loudly - I realize we're all given to "look at me!" moments, but lately it seems constant. I guess everyone goes through that phase, I just think most people who were around a few years ago were more interested in talking about the band, and so there was more of a sense of coming into a group of people with similar interests. People were nicer and more respectful.
> just think most people who were around a few years
> ago were more interested in talking about the band
There's a band? Oh, right, Moxy Fruvous! ;-)
Remember? It's this quirky band from Toronto. They did that "King of Spain" song?
ohhh! Right, the King of Spain band....
*nods*
*giggle* yeah. well, as someone who was on FHDC the week it went up I can honestly say there was never _that_ much band content. even when they were touring. in fact some people (including myself) made a point to avoid talking about Fruvous. I don't think that's the problem.
Oh yeah, as someone who was here then, too.. I can vouch.
:)
NO FRUVOUS CONTENT ON THE WALL!!!!!
OMG the drummer is *so hot!*
Living in harmony is the easiest and hardest thing in the world. We can write out laws that fill huge volumes. We can put it as simple as, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." We can discuss it endlessly, The Talmud is filled with commentary on the commentary on the commentary. We can just try to love our neighbor.
We all know what the problems are here and we know what to do. We need to do the best we can ourselves and try to give others the benefit of the doubt. It isn't easy to do but it isn't impossible either.
FHDC is my homepage. I look at it like home. When I'm online I check my frumsgs, read the forums, take the polls, and see what's going on, on the wall.
I can't help but feel that the people who are complaining really feel the same way I do. That's why they feel bad. Most of you are my friends. People I either talk to regularly or wish that I did. FHDC is the sum total of all of us. Of course you are welcome, we are the ones that do the welcoming.
I've been something of a loner all my life. I have friends but I never joined things like clubs. I never saw the point to it. This is the only group that has ever worked for me. If you leave it will stop. You are the reason it works.
I think i'm wasting a perfectly good diary entry here. It has all my hallmarks, its pretentious, incoherent, and preachy.
Well here's my thing, I think it's very important that people let each other know when there is a problem, so it can be dealt with. Even accepting an apology, which seems to be something that people haven't been willing to do. Please remember if someone said something offensive, this is the internet, you can't see their facial expression, voice tone etc. it might not have been meant as something offensive. Ask. Most of the people on here that I have met wont be offended by your asking how they meant that, or by saying "that really offended me" I have almost always recieved an apology, and was told that wasn't the way it was meant at all.
So yes, those are my thoughts.
Community building is definitley a hard thing to do. I've been a part of several different ones. Some of them flourished, some of them did not.
Communities build standards. There's expectations from its members. Certain conventions are created. Sort of a social contract, if you will. We call it netiquette.
People just don't seem to understand that it takes time and understanding. Especially more-so is needed for n00bies. Netiquette rules really help out newbies because the point out that " Netiquette varies from domain to domain. What's perfectly acceptable in one area may be dreadfully rude in another."
It's especially rude to insult someone who is trying to help you be a better member of the community. Especially when that member of the community ahs been around here a lot longer. Don't just brush off what they say because you're too lazy. People here are more than willing to teach. And, students willing, they eventually do learn.
I'm all for more understanding and patience, but if that fails, I'm in favor of breaking out the nerf weaponry. I've got mad firepower in my closet, and I'm not afraid to use it. ;-)
So going along with this sort of.. how did you do those links Paul? Is it the same as doing them on the powerwall?
Thanks, I was going to do it, but than got all ack! over perhaps doing it wrong, so I didn't.
You can do them the same was as on the powerwall, but with Frums and discussion posts and using MSIE, there's an easier way. Just highlight the text you want to link and then click the little icon of the globe with the chain. Type the URL in there and voila.
If you use MSIE you are accepting the Mark of the Beast (Bill Gates). Can somebody less lazy than I am please explain why 666 signifies Gates?
Ach! Bill Gates is not a bad person. I think he's wonderful! If you lived in WA you'd agree. He's donated massive amounts to schools and non-prof orgs.
Besides... isn't making as much money as possible the American dream? Seems to me like he is just being a good American. :^P
Yeah. I have a lot of respect for what Gates has done since he became the richest person on earth.
Microsoft still tends to act the part of the evil corporation, and he did get that rich through some fairly underhanded (if even legal) means, but I will give him credit for donating massive, massive, amounts of money to non-profits and such (not to mention NPR).
"icon of the globe with the chain"??
*puzzled look*
Oh... you're probably talking about the wysiwyg editor, eh?
I disabled it... too glitchy and annoying.
I'd much rather just type the a href myself.
:)
actually, on this general subject, perhaps there should be a "help" section on FHDC? or maybe context based help for each section of the site? I'm sure plenty of people here would be willing to contribute to such a system.
Oh, yeah.. I've been meaning to do that for awhile now. :) Anyone who's interested in helping out, frum me.
Sure. I'll help.
Just give me an axe and show me where to point it.
erm, let me know what I can do? :)
Nerf weaponry? I'd rather opt for a Big Foam Cluebat.
I've linked to a different cartoon for that in the past, but I couldn't find it in the archives, I must have posted it elsewhere. Turned up your link to this one whist hunting, I like yours better. :-P
-- Pauley
they smile when they are down!
but seriously. I've been a FHDC member for a bit and I've seen people come and sadly go and I've lost touch with some of them.. ... but I love this place. and the people here are the nicest people I know. and when I need to lean this is where I come because people I trust are here. I don't know what would have, could have, happened to me if I didn't have you people. we have some glitches here but what community doesn't. there is always that crazy guy on the side of the road dancing and talking to himself. the ones who would die before giving in durring a descussion. the soccer moms who can secretly eat an entire pound cake in 30 secconds. the rockers... hip-hoppers... and closet lil kim fans. we just gotta roll with it.
peace out my hommies.
*blink*
yeah. what she said.
*dies*
It's come to my mind, recently, that the old "moderation" system is gone. I think that in some respects, it served its purpose, to take the burden of deciding who was "good" and who was "bad" off of a couple of people's shoulders. It spread it out among the community.
The times they are a-changing, yes. While no one that I have seen lately has created enough of a stir to get what was the requisite five votes for an FHDC suspension, I found that it often became a good, anonymous way of saying "I'm sorry that's not really the way FHDC operates". I know I used this several times for EXTREMELY indecent language on the wall.
I'm not certain if this needs to be put back in place or not, or if a new system needs to be developed. Or perhaps we're all adult enough right now to hash it out. Like in this forum.
-= e =-
I think an interesting part of this community, and perhaps a part that causes problems... is the lack of ability to form a clique.
I mean... obviously, certain people side with certain others.... we keep in the background of our mind those sort of alliances.... and yet, there's no way to ignore those people you may dislike.
In real life.... you could not go where you know those people go.... you could avoid the break room when you know they eat lunch... or, for those still in school... the cafeteria when you know they're there.
In almost every sense, this is a real honest to god community. It's a nieghborhood.. and when you close that browser window, you walk back into your house.
The people I talk to on here, I consider close to me.... dear to me. If I don't see certain people every day when I open up that browser at 8:02AM eastern time and refresh the wall, I feel like, "Oh, they haven't shown up yet... I'll wait around."
It's like showing up at your favorite coffee spot and meeting with friends.
The difference is that, here, we all have different reasons for being here... we all show up to see different people... and there's no separating that.
I think, perhaps, that's a good thing.
Believe it or not, folks, we are still part of a pioneering part of human existance.... online living.
People have studied high school students... they've studied cow orkers.... but they're just starting (if they even are yet) to look at online communities and groups.
We ARE creating a new community here, and there are going to be growing pains.... but every time we accept someone new.... or accept someone who's been here forever and doesn't like the changes..... we are molding and creating this community.
The bottom line is.... none of us hate each other. We are all (as far as I've seen) a very accepting group.... and while certain day to day interactions may annoy us.... it's amazing how large this community has grown, and how quickly.
Kudos to Josh, for creating it... and kudos to ALL of us, for not just TRYING to make it work.... but MAKING it work.
There, was that sappy enough?
heh
*timidly raises a hand*
I... er... I hate all of you.
*dies*
That was really quite beautiful. Wow.
thank you Nate.
well said.
Ok I don't know what specific problems people are having, but here is how I see it. FHDC just like #moxyfruvous and AMMF before it has this kind of flow thing going on, where some people leave (for whatever reason) and new people join. In each of these institutions, one of the reasons the old people often give for moving on is the character of the place changing (often because of those damn newbies who just don't get it). Well as someone who has been here like a rock since 1995, I can tell you that the more things change, the more they also remain the same. I've heard group after group of "old-timers" complain about how the new people are ruining things as many of them move on, but then 18 months later you get those same former newbies, now old-timers doing the exact same thing.
Personally I think what is going on more than anything else is that the people who move on are changing more than the place is. That is the only explanation I can see for this behavior, because from my perspective, nothing has really changed all that much in 8 years. Subtle stuf that is governed by the personalities of the people around has changed, yeah, but the overall feeling of the community is more or less the same today IMHO as it was in 1997.
So whatever problemes y'all are having with people, lets talk about them and find ways to work them out. I love many of you to death, and I think some of you are complete psychos, but I don't hate any of you, and don't see why we can't all get along.
Ooh! Do I get to be a psycho??
Only if you do "the dance".
;)
I know what FHDC needs!!! THE PERFECT CHEER!
F! H! D! C! You're the one that pleases me!
Goooooooo Fruheads!
No, because I love you very much and will declare so in public. So there!
oO Gella and AJ, sittin in a tree.... Oo
That's what I love about FHDC, people WANT to be psychos.
Is it just me or have things lightened up a bit?
it's just you.. and that giant balloon that's lifting you into the sky!! ACK!!! The giant balloon got you!!
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