Poll: Have you ever taken part in a 12 step program?

aren't 12-step programs for addictions?

Back when I was in NA I did.. or started rather, a 12 step program, but hit about step 8 and fell back down the stairs.

They say you don't have to believe in God, but that you DO need to "give it to a higher power" or something like that.

Which made me wonder....if I don't believe in a higher power, what are my options?

I am forgetting the name but there is an atheist's version of AA, Rational somethingorother.

Now it came to me. Rational Recovery. I remembered it was alliterative, and that gave it to me.

There are lots and lots of athiests who successfully use the 12-step model. The ones who've explained it to me have explained that they use something else as their higher power.

The ones that've really made sense to me have cited the group as their higher power.

Whoa. That site makes the hair stand up on back of my neck. Do you know anything about it?

Seems like there's a hell of a lot more to "Rational Recovery" than just not needing a higher power.

"Yes, but it wasn't for me."

And I mean in the "I participated but it wasn't my addiction" way not in the "it wasn't my bag" way.

Actually I don't know much. I had a friend with an addiction problem who had been helped in the past by CA and relapsed. She used her atheism as an excuse to not go back and someone suggested RR which she had tried in the past. I didn't check out their website, I just found the url on google.

What made your hair stand up?

On 2-17-01 I never saw another Fruvous show. I still have flash backs.

hey! that's the same day i went cold turkey!

I ate cold turkey this weekend...

i ate warm turkey today. but it was reheated. i cooked it last night. in my GEORGE FORMAN LEAN MEAN CONTACT ROASTER! <3.

You know....there's a lot of that going cold turkey from Fruvous shows going around. My last show was in July 2000, so yeah let's see if i can go another year *thumbs up*

> What made your hair stand up?

The first thing that comes to mind is that in their FAQ, they refer to "shrinks." Also, the fact that they have their method's abbreviation (AVTR�) strikes me as somehow off. I know those are silly objections, but they sound alarms in my brain.

Also, they're just really dismissive of addiction, and methodologies that are currently used to treat addiction. I dunno. Maybe AVRT� holds the key to quick, pain-free recovery from addiction, but I've never seen any indication that it does. And if it really *was* as quick and easy as the website indicates, why would *anyone* go to *A meetings anymore?

It all just reeks of people who wear tinfoil hats, and think there's some vast conspiracy by the American Medical Association to keep Chiropractors down.