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«Michael (foof) Maki» *I'm* insensitive because I want to change the name of a sports team from something outwardly offensive to a group to which I belong? I don't get you. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:39pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» I didn't mean to say that your feelings/culture/whatever mean nothing to me. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:39pm) «Rob Balder» Yeah you are, because you won't recognize a line. You think you were born with the right to obliterate anything that offends you, regardless of what it means (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:40pm) «Rob Balder» omeone else. THAT is oppressor mentality!!! (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:40pm) «Rob Balder» The only alternative to oppression is mutal respect of what the group different from yours values. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:41pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» What I *am* trying to say, though, is that your memories, etc. of following the Redskins and other pieces of your culture surrounding them... (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:41pm) «Rob Balder» And you refuse to show the slightest sign of it. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:41pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» should not be affected in the least if it's changed to a non-offensive logo and name. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:42pm) «Rob Balder» It would utterly destroy the thing I love. It's a Redskin fan thing, you wouldn't understand. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:43pm) «Rob Balder» IRONY INTENDED :� (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:43pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» So I need to respect neo-nazis and the Klan? Balderdash. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:43pm) «Rob Balder» There's need for something, Frulie. I don't know what. Maybe an island I can live on where people won't villify me for my skin color and gender. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:44pm) «renita» dumdeedum dedum.. Hi Julie!!! (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:45pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» no one is vilifying you, Rob. I'm merely stating that the team name "redskins" is offensive to me. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:45pm) «jaye» no car exhaust ice cream, please (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:46pm) «Rob Balder» No you gave me the Poor White Male BULLSHIT (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:46pm) «Rob Balder» I don't personally respect the KKK because they are the antithesis of the tolerance we need to show in this country. But I tolerate them. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:46pm) «renita» Rob - you asked him what his take on the Redskins issue was! (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:46pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» So, Rob, you would have no problem with a baseball team called the "New Jersey Niggers" so long as it was a part of someone's culture? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:46pm) «jaye» frulie - so i hear *grin* (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:47pm) «Rob Balder» If they are wrong, it will come out in free discourse, not by stepping on their necks and trying to eradicate them. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:47pm) «renita» it's all about the durian fruit gelato! (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:47pm) «Rob Balder» There is no such team, Michael. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:47pm) «renita» /me *knows* that jaci is a lot of fun *evilgrin* (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:47pm) «jaye» if it's all about the durian fruit i want out. i never signed up for that =) (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:47pm) «Andrea Krause» she is, she is indeed (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:48pm) «jaye» renita - oh -my- (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:48pm) «jaye» *hugs* frulie (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:48pm) «renita» *sigh( again - I didn't get my German paragraph done - I'm a terriblly undedicated student :p (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:48pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Prulie: <hug> hiya, sweetie. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:48pm) «Rob Balder» I wouldn't be offended by a 75-year-old soccer team called the London Fags, though. If they were started by a cigarette company. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:48pm) «jaye» andrea . . you know . . sometimes i'm inspired (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:48pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Rob: That's why we are engaged in this discourse. No one is stepping on anyone else's neck. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:49pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Rob: Well, I've sufficiently reclaimed the word "fag" in my own mind that that word doesn't bother me at all. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:49pm) «Rob Balder» And the reason you can't do that with "Redskin" is...? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:50pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» But, to that point, I have sufficient respect for British culture to know that "fag" doesn't mean the same thing here as it does there. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:50pm) «Rob Balder» Especially now that you know the history of the name? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:50pm) «renita» becasue - presently in British culture the word 'fag' still means a cigarette... (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:51pm) «Rob Balder» The colonists did not put blue dye in their hair, they put red paint on their skin. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:51pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Just because I'm hardened to stereotyping and racism doens't mean it's hunky dory. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:51pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» I still haven't seen a cite for that. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:51pm) «Rob Balder» Their SKINS were RED. It is not and never HAS been a racial slur! (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:51pm) «renita» ..whereas on the northamerican continent 'redskin' (as a name separate from the sports team) presently is a derogatory term for a native american (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:51pm) «Rob Balder» Trust me, please. I will find you a cite if it takes me all evening. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:52pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» ...and even if that *is* what they're named after, why the obviously Indian logo? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:52pm) «renita» rob - but *why* did they paint their faces red? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:52pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» ...I suppose the Indians on the docks worked in warpaint. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:52pm) «Rob Balder» That is the 4th logo the team has had. It was created in the 1970s (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:52pm) «renita» the above refers to the brits who threw the tea by the by... (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:53pm) «Rob Balder» I'm not saying the Colonists were not racist! They were slaveholders, rRenita, of course they were (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:53pm) «renita» rob - that's not even close to what I'm trying to say... (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:54pm) «Rob Balder» But the act of the Boston Tea Party was an integral part of the American Revolution and it was perfectly legitimate to name a Boston team after them in 1925. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:54pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Rob: But if the name refers to the Boston Tea Party, why not make that clear from the logo? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:54pm) «Rob Balder» It's even OK to laud that action in 2001. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:54pm) «Paul D. Beasi» (from Webster's Dictionary) redskin- usually offensive: american indian (1699) (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:54pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» I've grown up in this society, and 45 minutes ago was the first time I've ever heard that explanation. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:55pm) «Paul D. Beasi» (so "not and never has been" might not be accurate) and now back to work having added my $0.02 (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:55pm) «renita» I'm asking why the brits who threw the tea, who had painted their faces red (which is what you say the team is named after and I'm not trying to argue that) (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:55pm) «renita» ..had chosen that colour... (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:55pm) «Rob Balder» The name WASHINGTON REDSKINS was not and never has been a slur, Paul. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:56pm) «renita» dang - class :p bbl (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:56pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Because it's a PROPER NOUN, Rob. Duh. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:56pm) «Rob Balder» Until Webster's decides otherwise I suppose. I need off this planet. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:56pm) «Rob Balder» I can't breathe the air without somebody telling me that what's dear to me oppresses them. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:57pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» I wasn't arguing that people are running about insulting each other by calling them "Washington Redskins�" (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:57pm) «Mike "Racer" Yoshioka» Gee Rob, a little self-important aren't we? :D What about me? What about Rob Balder? :D (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:58pm) «Rob Balder» My car burns fossil fuels, my air conditioner causes global warming. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:58pm) «Andrea Krause» The question is...do you think only the Redskins should be immune to challenge and reform because it's from the colonists and all, or that the whole issue... (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:58pm) «Andrea Krause» shouldn't exist...? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:59pm) «Rob Balder» No Karen is Jewish and someone spray painted a synagogue across the river on Friday with the words "GO HOME" (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:59pm) «Rob Balder» She must be an oppressor too. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:59pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Actually, it's your entire car (and its CO2 emissions) that cause global warming. Its AC causes the hole in the ozone layer. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:59pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» I still don't get what the meat of your argument is, Rob. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 3:00pm) «Rob Balder» I work for a large competition-crushing corporate communications conglomerate. I must be wrecking the economy. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 3:00pm) «Rob Balder» The meat of my argument is that you don't act as if we are equals. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 3:00pm) «Rob Balder» Whe you are offended by something, it is a crime. Action must be taken at once. When I am offended it is a joke. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 3:01pm) «Rob Balder» Poor white male. Something he cares about is threatened. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 3:01pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Rob: I don't think our arguments *are* equals. I don't think that systematic opression and racism is equivalent to being a fan of a team. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 3:02pm) «Andrea Krause» cares about vs. IS (Apr 2, 2001 @ 3:02pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» ...regardless of whether you were the one perpetrating that opression, it *did* exist. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 3:03pm) « Previous 100 entries | Next 100 entries »
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