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«Rob Balder» 7-stud, 5's and 7's are wild, but if you get one dealt UP, you must either match the pot or fold. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:54pm) «lawrence» ouch. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:55pm) «Rob Balder» Yeah that's one of those "pot gets crazy" games. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:55pm) «lawrence» yeah, I'll bet. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:55pm) «Rob Balder» Anything with a match-the-pot rule has the potential to hit the stratosphere (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:56pm) «lawrence» well, not really - I mean, I'd guess that as soon as anyone matched the pot everyone else would assume they have a great hand and would fold... (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:57pm) «Rob Balder» "Woolworths" is the same game, with 5s and 10s wild. The difference is 10s up are free. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:57pm) «Rob Balder» You'd think that, but what if you have 2 ppl with great hands, or one guy with a pair of wilds in the hole and never having to match. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:58pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» ...about to wade into a discussion about Indians-as-mascots on the SDMB. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:58pm) «Rob Balder» Michael what's your position on that, given your ancestry? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:58pm) «jaye» go michael =) (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:58pm) «Rob Balder» Frequently we see somebody match the pot at $20 or more just to lose to the pocket wilds or the cheap river rats. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 1:59pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Rob: In a word, "against" I think that it's at best insensitive, and at worst a sign of internalized racism. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:01pm) «Rob Balder» Well, I don't mean any offense, but I'm a lifetime diehard Redskins fan and wouldn't want them to change their name. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:03pm) «Rob Balder» I don't associate the team name with any people other than the ones in uniform. I live to see those 11 people beat the snot out of Dallas. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:04pm) «renita» okee - running to class! have a lovely day everyone! I'll bbl I'm sure *grin* (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:04pm) «Rob Balder» *wave* Renita (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:04pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» No offense taken, but just know that I'm going to buy the Twins and rename them the Chicago Crackers. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:04pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» (then there will be a team the folks back on the rez can *really* get behind) (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:05pm) «Rob Balder» See, I don't think there's a team name I'd personally find offensive. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:06pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Rob: That's because you're The Opressor. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:06pm) «Rob Balder» Was it Heinlein who often refered to a football team called the "Berlin Nazis?" (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:06pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» ...if you'd grown up on a reservation, your view would likely be much different. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:07pm) «Rob Balder» I'm not personally oppressing anybody. The Washington Redskins is the closest I have to a tribal affiliation. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:08pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» ...and frankly, I think the whitefolk who argue that names/mascots are chosen out of respect for the cultures are full of shite. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:09pm) «Rob Balder» I don't mean that to be flippant. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:09pm) «lawrence» my main problem with it is that the name "redskins" is based on a generalisation and a stereotype, as is their logo. it's totally inappropriate... (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:09pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» (are they the Washington DC Redskins? I'd always assumed they were based in Washington State) (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:09pm) «Rob Balder» Well, in fact the Redskins were started in Boston, and the name referred to the paricipants at the Boston Tea Party (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:09pm) «lawrence» as is "braves" and their logo and tomahawk chop and so on. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:10pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» ...and "redskin" is roughly equivalent in offensiveness to the-N-word. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:10pm) «Rob Balder» No they were a Boston team that moved to DC like 75 years ago (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:10pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Rob: You got a cite for that one? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:10pm) «Rob Balder» Sure, I'll find a link at the Post (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:11pm) «Rob Balder» Drat nothing's coming up on the archive search. Give me a few (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:12pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Now, do I, as an Indian man have bigger things to worry about than some oaf in a mascot costume? Decidedly... But that doesn't mean it's not wrong. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:13pm) «Rob Balder» Yeah but my point is that the team and their name is personally meaningful to me. My grandfather was a Redskins fan and taught me the fight song. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:14pm) «Rob Balder» You have a tribe as a larger group you identify yourself as a member of. "Redskins fans" is one of my only such affiliations. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:15pm) «Rob Balder» It may not be sacred and significant, but it serves the same psychological need. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:16pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Right. But frankly I think that your positive idenitification surrounding the Redskins is trumped by the innate offensiveness of the name. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:16pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» They would be the same team if they were the Washington Elephants or the Washington Donkeys. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:17pm) «Rob Balder» So I should give up my traditions because they offend yours. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:17pm) «Andrea Krause» But if someone took your redskins fans tribe, derived a name out or a stereotype, and adopted a cariacature of you as a logo......? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:17pm) «Rob Balder» And you'd be the same tribe if the government forced you to call yourselves "The Central Midwestern Tribe" (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:18pm) «Rob Balder» Andrea, neither is true. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:18pm) «Rob Balder» The name was derived from the Boston Tea Party, when the team was founded in Boston. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:19pm) «Rob Balder» The logo is not a characature. There's nothing about the logo that remotly suggests mockery. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:19pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Rob: Absolutely. Because those traditions are based in racism and negative stereotypes. Frankly, sucks to your traditions. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:19pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» The *name, itself* suggests mockery. Would you similarly stand beside a team called the "Delaware Darkies"? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:20pm) «Rob Balder» Well it's impossible for me to respect yours, then. I don't give a damn if I offend someone who demands respect and yet gives none. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:21pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» ...it has been my experience that Indians mostly find the redskins/indians/etc offensive. The whitefolk generally don't. Does that suggest something to you? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:22pm) «jaye» /me points out, for the record, that her university, which is technically named for chief seattle - changed its mascot from the chieftans to the red hawks .... (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:22pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» I have utmost respect for your traditions that are not based on negative stereotypes and racism. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:22pm) «jaye» ... as a move on the part of the students, not a reaction to protests (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:22pm) «Rob Balder» It's really disturbing that you dismiss my feelings with a wave and a "sucks to you." How dare you do that and in the same breath demand I care about yours? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:23pm) «lawrence» Rob - you're effectively defending racism. that's NOT COOL. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:23pm) «Rob Balder» You draw a line, respecting what's acceptable. That's not respect at all. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:23pm) «Rob Balder» Fuck ANYONE who calls me a racist! (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:24pm) «Rob Balder» I am not a racist! I am not an oppressor! I am a guy with his own life, trying to get by! (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:24pm) «lawrence» I'm not calling *you* a racist. I'm saying that you're defending something rooted in racism. there *must* be a line drawn. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:25pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» What I'm saying is that your traditions surrounding the Redskins have *nothing* to do with the fact they're *called* the Redskins. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:25pm) «Rob Balder» I have culture, I have traditions, and I have values. All I ever get is bullshit about how I'm not respecting the value of other people's traditions. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:25pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» ...how does it affect you if they change their name to something not DIRECTLY OFFENSIVE to people alive today? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:26pm) «Izzy» hello is chaya in hear (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:26pm) «Rob Balder» Nobody gives a SHIT about anything that matters to ME, that I identify with because of who I am and how I grew up! (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:26pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Izzy: No. And unless you're wearing asbestos underwear, I'd suggest you follow her example. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:26pm) «Rob Balder» IT OFFENDS ME MICHAEL! DEEPER THAN YOU ARE CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING! (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:26pm) «lawrence» rob, football is *hardly* culture. it's not heritage. it's not genetics. it's just a game. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:26pm) «Rob Balder» Yeah FUCK that attitude, too. Football is MY culture. My ancestors got here in steerage. Anything we have for culture we BUILT here. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:27pm) «Rob Balder» And that includes SPORT. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:27pm) «Izzy» okay i seemed to have entered in the middle of a heated discussion (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:28pm) «Rob Balder» It doesn't have to be a thousand years old to be REAL CULTURE (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:28pm) «Izzy» so i'll be leaving now (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:28pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» That's fine. But Redskin *is* a derogatory word for someone of American Indian ancestry. Can we agree on that point? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:29pm) «Rob Balder» Culture is what my society and I create together. The Washington Redskins are as much my culture as a thousand-year old religious ceremony is to Michael's (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:29pm) «Rob Balder» NO WE CAN NOT (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:29pm) «Rob Balder» The FUCKING COLONISTS put RED PAINT on their faces and dumped tea in the harbor. It HAPPENED. We studied it in school. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:30pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Wow. That is a stunning display of ignorance, Rob. You suprise me. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:30pm) «Rob Balder» It was part of our American history. It was not a racist act it was a revolutionary one. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:31pm) «Rob Balder» Yeah whatever, Michael. I'm sure you're involved in revising history too. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:31pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» No. REGARDLESS of where the team name "Redskins" came from, "redskin" *is* a derogatory term. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:32pm) «Rob Balder» Steal my present and my past. Whatever revenge you need to seek for something that people who weren't even my ancestors did to yours. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:32pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» ...and for that matter, the logo for the redskins *isn't* of a guy in a tricorn with a red face. It's a picture of an identifiably Indian man. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:33pm) «Robin Engle» (Not if you're referring to a redskin potato. Sorry. Couldn't resist. Haven't visited the Wall in a month & feel like I walked into a beesnest.) (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:33pm) «Robin Engle» Hi Michael, how are you? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:33pm) «Rob Balder» My ancestors got here in the 1910s and worked in the steel mills. They were Steelers. I don't go protesting the NFL for casting aspesions on my ancestors. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:33pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» It's not about revenge. It's about eliminating patently offensive stereotypes from the public discourse. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:34pm) «Rob Balder» The Redskins are sacred to me. I doubt you can understand. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:34pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Rob: Tha's because Steelers, as a group, do not find the team name offensive. Such is not the case with the Redskins, et al. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:34pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Robin: Okay. How are you? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:34pm) «Rob Balder» You know, there isn't a single thing I am allowed by society to take offense at. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:35pm) «Robin Engle» Stunned, frankly. I feel like I just walked into AMMF! (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:35pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Rob: And I doubt you can understand the pain of seeing my loved ones degraded as "prairie niggers" and being a second-class citizen in town because of my ances (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:35pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Rob: I shall light a candle and say a novena for the plight of the poor caucasian male in the USA. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:36pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» Robin: <nods> these things spring up occasionally when Rob and I both have too much free time on the same day. :-) (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:36pm) «Robin Engle» I'm blonde, shall we start on blonde stuff? (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:37pm) «Rob Balder» Whatever, Michael. Boo fucking hoo. I don't participate in that behavior and frankly you are so insensitive I can't possible care. (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:37pm) «Rob Balder» Frankly as a result of this discussion I hope you are personally offended by something every hour on the hour to the end of time. My feelings mean nothing to (Apr 2, 2001 @ 2:38pm) « Previous 100 entries | Next 100 entries »
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