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«Talcott» And the thing is, honeslty "god" was never my problem with the pledge. I always thought the whole idea was just scary to begin with (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:48pm) «Talcott» Or at least required recitals over the intercom.. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:49pm) «iPauley» I think a pledge of alliegence to the flag and the country is good at its core. it never says "I'm allied with the government," which is good... (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:50pm) «iPauley» ...'cause the government can do some pretty stupid things. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:50pm) «Talcott» But you're not pledging to the country in the first place. It's the flag. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:51pm) «iPauley» "and to the republic for which it stands" -- to the flag -and- the country. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:52pm) «jaye» in a way, it seems weird that it's taken this long for someone to fight it that far. it seems like there's an avi book about a student protesting the pledge (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:53pm) «jaye» but i might just be making that up. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:53pm) «sheryls» YUM. pollyeyes. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:54pm) «Talcott» mmm (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:54pm) «Talcott» Pauley: But the flag is still in there. I don't know...it always reminded me of the films of kids in totalarian schools. It's simialr at least (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:55pm) «jaye» oh, nevermind. it had to do with the anthem. so i only sort of made it up (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:57pm) «Talcott» But then again, there's a /lot/ about standard American patraiotism that's always bugged me. Not the concept, but the manner.. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:57pm) «iPauley» the flag is a symbol that represents the nation. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:57pm) «sheryls» talcott: but we live in ohio, where most standard "patriots" are gun-toting NRA-nuts. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:58pm) «Talcott» yeah, but it's taken far /far/ too seriously (and too lightly at the same time). I dunno, it's just never been something I've really gotten. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:58pm) «Talcott» Sheryl: Well, yeah. But in my mind there's a difference between thinikng the U.S. is pretty swell (the idea of love is another argument for another time ;) and (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:59pm) «Talcott» being "patriotic" (in the normal U.S. sense of the word) (Jun 27, 2002 @ 6:59pm) «Talcott» It's more a matter of display, as opposed to beliefs. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:00pm) «Talcott» (and yet again, Talcott talks politics, and people flee the area ;) (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:02pm) «iPauley» heehee (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:02pm) «jaye» hee! i was just thinking that . .i hadn't thought about it much. i haven't said it since school, and then i had to recite all kinds of pledges. girl scouts, ... (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:04pm) «jaye» .. camp fire, etc. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:04pm) «Talcott» Yeah, I lucked out (in my mind), we didn't do the pledge at my school until the govenor visited. (I don't know if I even knew it until then). (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:05pm) «Talcott» In the end though, I think it also comes down to the idea that required patriotism isn't patriotism at all (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:07pm) «danced with Lazlo» erm? (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:11pm) «sheryls» ah, new power supply on its way. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:11pm) «danced with Lazlo» *goes back and reads archive to find out (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:11pm) «Talcott» yay! (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:11pm) «Talcott» That light is too cool to not have proper power ;) (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:11pm) «iPauley» saw that pic on your site -- drooooooool :) (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:12pm) «sheryls» lol...thanks :D it doesnt work at the moment tho, it locks up my computer. i just ordered a 400W power supply :) (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:13pm) «sheryls» AND i got a black keyboard now. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:16pm) «danced with Lazlo» yes, forced patriotism isn't patriotism, it's brainwashing (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:16pm) «Talcott» oooooh! (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:16pm) «danced with Lazlo» and it is an undermining of everything that the flag and the nation stand for (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:16pm) «danced with Lazlo» /me shuts up and sits down (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:16pm) «Michael (foof) Maki» the *keyboard* puts you afoul of the power supply?! (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:17pm) «Talcott» Gella: Exactly! (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:18pm) «sheryls» no, the light. www.sheryls.org (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:18pm) «jaye» naw, gella should have offered us three snaps up in a z formation after that one. all attitude bay-bee (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:19pm) «jaye» *thinks about this* so . .should the pledge not be said at all? said without "under god"? said with the option to -not- say it? (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:21pm) «jaye» actually. i shouldn't get involved. i'm leaving in 8 minutes (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:21pm) «Jºnªthªn» hello wall crawlers... (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:21pm) «danced with Lazlo» under God should be extracted, as should the "in God we trust" as the country's motto (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:21pm) «sheryls» hey jonathan~! happy birthday! (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:21pm) «sheryls» ........tomorrow :D (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:21pm) «Jºnªthªn» arigato! (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:21pm) «Talcott» Personaly: I don't think it should be said at all at schools. Not banned, but no mass sayings. Just saying "you don't have to say it" doesn't say much (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:22pm) «iPauley» I would accept without "ug" -- but the rest of the pledge is a good thing. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:22pm) «danced with Lazlo» the pledge should be taught in schools as a part of gov't and american history. Perhaps recited, on occasion. But never required. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:22pm) «Jºnªthªn» cool case (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:22pm) «Talcott» I guess I see it the way I see school prayer. People should be allowed to say it when/wherever they want to, but it should not be a school thing at all (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:22pm) «Jºnªthªn» I like Bush's statement that all our rights flow from God... (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:22pm) «jaye» well, i don't know that you can have it both ways. i mean, if you're not going to have a mass recitation then when -can- people say it? recess? :P (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:23pm) «Jºnªthªn» "you have the right to remain silent, but God can still hear you." (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:23pm) «danced with Lazlo» Talcott... yes, you're right. Reciting the pledge en masse and saying "you don't have to say it" is tantamount to saying "you may exclude yourself if you wish, (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:23pm) «danced with Lazlo» at the risk of being ostracized and beaten up by your peers (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:23pm) «Talcott» Ok, that idea works a bit more for prayer...I guess I like Gella's idea best (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:23pm) «Talcott» It is important to know, but more as a historical/cultural thing (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:24pm) «Jºnªthªn» Apparently it was written by some socialist christian writer in 1892 (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:24pm) «danced with Lazlo» one shouldn't be required to declare their beliefs in public (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:24pm) «sheryls» next star trek movie looks gooooooood. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:24pm) «Talcott» Once again, I should just let Gella do my talking for me ;) (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:25pm) «iPauley» haven't elected to wade through the throngs on the websites to see the trailer yet. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:25pm) «danced with Lazlo» if you choose to belong to an institution which requires such declarations, then it is your choice (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:25pm) «Mike "Racer" Yoshioka» worship me, that's all i have to say. :D (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:25pm) «Talcott» (Sheryl: Yes it does!) (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:25pm) «danced with Lazlo» we don't choose to go to school (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:25pm) «iPauley» your parents make that choice for you. you can be homeschooled or provate schooled if you wish. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:25pm) «iPauley» if your parents wish, I should say (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:26pm) «danced with Lazlo» the requirement to declare one's beliefs is an abridgement of the freedom to hold your own beliefs (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:26pm) «Talcott» Pauley: Those are awful options (for this case, not as concepts themselves) (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:26pm) «Talcott» If anything, pubilc schools should be the most free options (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:27pm) «jaye» naw, as options in themselves :P i went to catholic school k-college and look how i turned out :P (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:27pm) «Jºnªthªn» is that Lore in the trailer? (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:27pm) «Talcott» (Jaci: Generaly yes, but I'm trying to avoid some toes here ;) (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:28pm) «danced with Lazlo» you know... I find it really amusing that here, in a country which is supposed to be secular in government and free, one cannot marry another of the same sex... (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:29pm) «danced with Lazlo» and yet in admittedly catholic countries such as Spain, there is no problem with it. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:29pm) «sheryls» i went to 6 schools. 1 was private. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:29pm) «sheryls» (private jewish tho) (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:29pm) «danced with Lazlo» Public school my whole life. And fucking proud of it (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:30pm) «Jºnªthªn» America has always had the contradiction of religious freedom, and conservative attitudes (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:30pm) «danced with Lazlo» not of the schools themselves... rather of the fact that I went to them (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:30pm) «sheryls» the others were all public :D (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:30pm) «danced with Lazlo» yes. That doesn't make it okay. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:30pm) «sheryls» i only went there for 4 years. half my day was in hebrew. it was fun. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:30pm) «Talcott» Gella: How are you typing the same thing as I do, but before I hit enter? (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:30pm) «Jºnªthªn» I was raised by wolves (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:31pm) «danced with Lazlo» I ate your brain. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:31pm) «Jºnªthªn» pricate Jewish wolves tho (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:31pm) «Talcott» Ah, ok. That explains it ;) (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:31pm) «iPauley» same here. Public school since I was 5. and I've never had any problem with saying the pledge in school. Even after I stopped going to church in 7th grade. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:32pm) «Jºnªthªn» I always went to public school, meantime my mother was teaching in private schools.... (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:32pm) «sheryls» /me grrs at her lack of guestbook signings - cant belive she *lost* her old guestbook. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:32pm) «danced with Lazlo» i went to a Jewish after school program where we had this whole debate over whether we should hold prayers before our sunday afternoon announcements (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:32pm) «iPauley» it's never been religious to me. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:32pm) «sheryls» we had to go to shul every monday/wed/friday mornings before classes in private school. (Jun 27, 2002 @ 7:33pm) « Previous 100 entries | Next 100 entries »
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